Mr Messenger Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 I've found some amazing bone china cups that I love. I just hate the pattern. Is there any way for me to paint over then reglaze these cups? From what I've managed to find out so far, I would need to manually sand off the old glaze first. Is that right? Also, would the glaze on the inside of the cups survive a second firing? Indeed, would the bone china itself survive, as it's quite thin. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rae Reich Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 I have fired low-fire enamels on to commercial mugs, but not thinner-walled cups. I had some mugs develop problems during the firing that I ascribed to some of the mugs having been washed or wetted sometime prior. If there is any chance that the cups have any moisture hiding in cracks or crevices it will be a problem. The mugs I worked with had bits of glaze pop off when fired to ^018. I've never tried to sand off previous decoration. Seems hazardous, dustwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 You'll never get the previous glaze sanded off. You just have to go over it with the new glaze. Applying the new glaze will be difficult, because the piece is not porous. I recommend heating the cup a bit, and using a brushing glaze because they have binders and hardeners that will help them stick. That said, it sounds like you did not make the cups yourself? If that's the case, we don't know how hot they were fired, and therefore how hot to fire them this time around. The best bet is to fire them lower than what was probably originally done, to avoid issues with the clay slumping. It is possible that the original glaze was fired lower than the clay body, so it may run even at lower temps, especially once you layer another glaze on top of it. And the new glaze may not play nice with the old glaze. Without knowing more about how the pieces were made, it's all a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 I have a friend that will occasionally alter factory made China with China paints and/or cone 017 decals and/or lustres. That could be an option. If they're thrift store finds, maybe just test one first before committing to all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Messenger Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Yes, there are a whole load of considerations. I'm thinking now that the best option might be to paint over the pattern with ceramic paint and fire it at a low temperature. Do you know if I could put the ceramic paint into a spray bottle? I believe it's water-based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 dry the pieces out in an oven with pilot light for few days to dry them out all the way. In ceramics the only paint is china paint all other coatings are called glaze with a few exceptions like low fire lusters which are in the china paint low temp range. Most all glazes are water based exceptions are lusters and I believe china paints? A spray bottle is a poor choice for application of glaze-it will clog up after few pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 China paints use some kind of oil base as well. But it’s also designed to go onto already glazed wares without having to do anything other than remove any oil or fingerprint residue with rubbing alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 China paints are also fired in a kiln. Ceramic enamel is different and cured in a normal oven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 (China paints use some kind of oil base as well) Definitely oil based with nasty solvents in them as well as to clean the brush or thin them. Not to mention the luster headaches from fumes and firing fumes. I can still recall that smell and its been over 30 years-I think its like ether if thats ever knocked you out as a kid in surgery-you always can recall the smell/taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 China paints and the corresponding medium is an artist preference thing. They range from alcohol to baby oil. Some smell, some do not. It depends on the artists preference. Pine oil is a great one, but so is mineral oil. Oil based cleanup with turpentine is normal. That said, 016- 018 usually softens the underglaze and sets them relatively permanent. Definitely decorative stuff though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rae Reich Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Lavender oil, too. Much easier to use than traditional China Paints are Overglaze Enamels which come in small tubes like oil paints. They don't smell particularly bad, but do require stinky spirits for thinning and clean-up. They paint like acrylics and are fired to ^018. They would probably not be good for spraying. A smooth, even, opaque brush application application is possible. Test first. Also not recommended to hover near kiln when firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rae Reich Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 hours ago, liambesaw said: China paints are also fired in a kiln. Ceramic enamel is different and cured in a normal oven. Is Ceramic enamel the craft store stuff ? As I recall, it's not opaque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 41 minutes ago, Rae Reich said: Is Ceramic enamel the craft store stuff ? As I recall, it's not opaque. Yeah, it's marketed as ceramic enamel or glass enamel. China paints are also translucent, takes a few layers to darken them up, at least from my limited knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Messenger Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 The paint I was looking at is Porcelaine 150, an oven bake craft paint. I imagine I'd need two coats at least to cover the cups' dark blue pattern. I think I'd struggle to get a completely smooth finish with a brush. That's why I was hoping to spray. These are the cups, by the way. Some of the best bone china I've seen. https://www.johnlewis.com/rick-stein-treyarnon-bay-cups-220ml-set-of-2/p3551482?sku=237527708&s_kwcid=2dx92700039443553473&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItri_4_Pd3wIVQ7TtCh0R1whZEAQYAyABEgL2C_D_BwE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 No oven baked craft paint is going to be all that durable compared to glaze. And they're not food safe, so they can't go anywhere on the pot where food or your lips would touch them. And they'll look like paint, not glaze. If the pieces are really that great, adding this type of product to them would not be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Porcelain works, have used it mainly on trophy’s . Not entirely permanent and generally listed as non toxic I believe. It is paint that can be cured in your oven or will simply fully cure within about a week on its own as I recall if the item cannot be heated. I should add, covering the vivid blue on those cups, on the outside only would be near impossible with this paint and covering the eating surfaces in the matching plates with this is probably a bad idea as well as one difficult to make look professional. Non toxic or not, this likely will not last long on these surface under normal wear and tear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 It may be easier just to find some new cups that you like that will work without change? As Neil said most oven or lusters temps are easy to wear off -not very durable and really not food safe. Most use these for decorations not at the cup lip-but on the areas not used in functionality .Many of these especially luster wear off in dishwashers or even in hand washing over time.I have used plenty of decal and gold luster to say without a doubt they are not for everyday wares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rae Reich Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Those cups look like production-made blanks that the artist has glazed with his own designs. Might be possible to track down blank, plain-glazed cups from the same manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 the original cups were done by someone who wanted them to look that way. to many people they are beautiful. altering them in any way would be like putting lipstick on the Mona Lisa. why would you want to cover them in something that will only ruin them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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