liambesaw Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, GEP said: The difference between these two formats is volume. I can unload 150 to 200 pots in a three day show. It’s not feasible to pack and ship this amount of pots in three days. No matter how good you are at online marketing, there is a fairly low ceiling of volume, defined by the packing and shipping. Doing shows is a lot of labor but the ceiling is much higher. I think that depends on your mindset. I used to run an online retail store and was packing and shipping hundreds of packages a week, at night, by myself. Sure it wasn't 300 in a weekend, but it was 300 spread throughout a week. It takes some getting used to, but it's not a barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, liambesaw said: I think that depends on your mindset. I used to run an online retail store and was packing and shipping hundreds of packages a week, at night, by myself. Sure it wasn't 300 in a weekend, but it was 300 spread throughout a week. It takes some getting used to, but it's not a barrier. But was it pottery, or something that isn’t as fragile and can be shipped without as much packing materials, time and labor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, GEP said: But was it pottery, or something that isn’t as fragile and can be shipped without as much packing materials, time and labor? A mixture of live animals and glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, liambesaw said: A mixture of live animals and glass. Ok, that sounds pretty fragile. I don’t know what the supply chain is like for that sort of thing, but if a potter is packing say a 100 boxes per week, they would not have time to make pots. It takes me a long work day to pack 20 boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, GEP said: Ok, that sounds pretty fragile. I don’t know what the supply chain is like for that sort of thing, but if a potter is packing say a 100 boxes per week, they would not have time to make pots. It takes me a long work day to pack 20 boxes. I picked my orders into bins, made boxes up and packed. A good tape gun, giant stack of newspaper and free USPS shipping boxes were my tools. If you do it every night you end up getting good and fast at it, just like everything in life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 That sounds very efficient, but pottery is not all the same size and shape. Each box needs individual attention. I can’t picture packing it in an assembly line fashion. That is, unless someone designs a line of pottery that is geared towards streamlined shipping. That’s a different story altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, GEP said: That sounds very efficient, but pottery is not all the same size and shape. Each box needs individual attention. I can’t picture packing it in an assembly line fashion. That is, unless someone designs a line of pottery that is geared towards streamlined shipping. That’s a different story altogether. You're not charged by the size of box, so you learn to order boxes of a certain average size. I used a LOT of 8x8x8 boxes, but had 5 sizes. Two padded envelope sizes (not applicable to ceramics), and 3 box sizes (small flat rate, 8x8x8 and 8x10x12). Those fit most of the things people would order, and for larger orders it was usually more economical to ship flat rate or in separate boxes. You just get into the swing of things. It's a pain in the butt for sure, but some people enjoy a little pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Here’s a photo of one of my online sales. We are talking about two different things. My box sizes are not as uniform and predictable as what you are describing. This took me an entire day, about 20 boxes. Again, what you’re talking about could apply to someone who has designed a line of pots meant for uniform shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeU Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Rae Reich said: Why not notify your representatives when your opportunities for trade are being infringed by prohibitive policies? Dare I suggest because historically that has been an exercise in futility (not trying to wander into the politics of various interactive global economies, but there is that!). If true "choice" were involved, there would be no need for objection! It is the integrity of the sellers that is being expressed, in not just leaving it to the purchaser to pay such awful/unfair tarrifs without the seller giving it another thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rae Reich Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 9 hours ago, LeeU said: Dare I suggest because historically that has been an exercise in futility (not trying to wander into the politics of various interactive global economies, but there is that!). If true "choice" were involved, there would be no need for objection! It is the integrity of the sellers that is being expressed, in not just leaving it to the purchaser to pay such awful/unfair tarrifs without the seller giving it another thought. I agree that purchasers must be advised that overseas shipping is costly, but that's no reason for not giving them the choice at all. 1) no sale or 2) cost plus shipping - it's your pot they want, can they pay for it? If shipping costs you time and labor, that needs to be factored in too, @GEP. Thanks, @liambesaw, for the belly laugh at "live animals and glass" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 10 hours ago, LeeU said: Dare I suggest because historically that has been an exercise in futility (not trying to wander into the politics of various interactive global economies, but there is that!). If true "choice" were involved, there would be no need for objection! It is the integrity of the sellers that is being expressed, in not just leaving it to the purchaser to pay such awful/unfair tarrifs without the seller giving it another thought. It's the destination country that levies import taxes, not the country of origin. You as a small scale seller in a foreign country actually have no say at all in the matter. The best you can do as a seller is advise your customer that their government may levy additional taxes that they will be responsible for paying. Give them the information and let them make their own choices as purchasers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Rae Reich said: I agree that purchasers must be advised that overseas shipping is costly, but that's no reason for not giving them the choice at all. A businessperson is much better off when they realize they aren’t required to please everyone. Lots of people have failed at being self-employed because they tried to please everyone, rather than treating their own time and resources carefully. 2 hours ago, Rae Reich said: If shipping costs you time and labor, that needs to be factored in too, @GEP. A busy potter’s studio time is worth $100 to $200/hour. I cannot imagine surcharging $100 for a $40 mug, to account for the time spent in communications and packing. This is way outside the boundaries of common sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rae Reich Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 I like @Mark C.'s suggestion of a minimum number of items for shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 For me, it was more for the joy of selling my best pieces to people who wanted them and had been asking for them through direct messages and such. I am not trying to make any kind of living selling pottery online, it was just a way to pay for materials and get some pottery out into the world for people to enjoy. I really liked getting back the pictures of people using their pots with food and drink in them. It was nice to sell my work... I am a hobby potter and not a professional one, so I didn't mind the 10 minutes here and there to sell a $35-45 yunomi or mug. I wouldn't want to make mugs and pack them for a living online by any means. My long-term plan for pottery is to slowly build my work, aesthetic and following over my lifetime of enjoyment, fulfillment, and relaxation. I am not sure what I am going to do with my pots now. I think my hammer is going to get used even more. On the bright side, winter is almost here and I don't pot much during the winter so I will probably just let this absurdly overpriced tax thing fade from my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 hey enjoy the break. Politics and taxes are what they are and no matter where you are or what you do its always a factor. Some of these things actually have a point, such as encouraging supporting artist locally or some other not so noble reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 You can still offer your work for sale to US customers. Your overseas admirers will understand. I know this experience is a bummer, but you can still achieve all of your goals. Like I said earlier, you still have unimpeded access to the largest customer base for handmade pottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 After a good nights rest, and a few hours of calming down (my school workload is intense). I still plan to sell work overseas. I will just make sure they are aware that they will probably face additional fees when picking up their package if their local government has duties or taxes. I just have to figure out if Etsy has a way to make that prominent for overseas customers. I don't think they do, but I will figure out something. I appreciate everyone's opinions and stuff, and I am sorry if I started a political sidetrack here. Just was mindboggling, but that's my own ignorance for living in my little pond here in the USA. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 I don't think this tread veered out of the topic of pottery and thank you for bringing it up. These threads serve two purposes, one to help you and the other to add to the huge knowledge base of this community. Before reading this I would have just assumed that most people ordering internationally would expect the duties and fees. Now I will always email any international customer before I pack and ship. While its hard not to look at the value of pottery from my own economic view point it is not really that useful. People make their decisions on if something is worth the price and their economic realities are usually their baseline. I will just charge what I need\want to charge and make more of what sells and less of what doesn't. I love selling my pottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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