Gabby

If I remember correctly, in some Native american tribes, a family owns a dance or song or cultural element the way in the US you might own your home. To use their material in your own production on the basis of some argument that cultural elements cannot be owned would be like for someone to make camp at your house on the theory that land cannot be owned.  I have seen the work of several artists who got explicit permission from families to use their symbols in their art.
If I remember, within aboriginal cultures, the meaning of the symbols they use is largely secret. Some symbols are not secret but some are.
I think it is respectful for people to generate their own symbols or symbolic languages rather than to appropriate from a culture they admire.  Many people will overlap in the images they use, but people should attach their own meanings and avoid other people's  particularly sacred images if they mean to be respectful.
Obviously there is a great deal of art that specifically means to be disrespectful. The standards for that sort of work will be different.

Here’s how the gravy boat redesign turned out. 

Well, throwing well is not something I need to worry about...'cuz it sure ain't happenin'.  I used to be quite proficient (after 3 years of high quality formal training specific to ceramics.) I threw lovely bowls, fitted lids, mugs w/great handles. pitchers, platters, etc. That was decades ago--now, the simmering deficits beginning to riddle my brain overide much of the muscle memory & the essential knowledge about how to throw well, consistently.  The memory aspect seems to render my motivation  to press on (practice/practice; fall/get up, fall/get up) fairly diluted.  I will keep at it--I don't give up until/unless that is the only survival move left to make.  I have a great wheel and every once in a while I crank out a nice piece on it. I just won't be making myself miserable by confronting the times that I really "can't" pull it off.  What's important is that I love what I am doing at this time, exploring certain hand building dynamics, and simply enjoying other people's thrown work.   

This about 30 pieces from the 47 pieces. Will load the kiln at lunch break today and start it up to fire the other 17 or so pieces. The goblets will be in this firing. They take nearly half of the 27 inches of the kiln interior height.

I used to tell my students “if it works for you, it’s not wrong.”
My “bad habit” is to skip foot rings on all pots that I am producing in high volumes. Foot rings are very time consuming. I still like to trim them on things I make in lower volumes. But for mugs and small bowls, no way!
I’ve heard potters say dogmatic things like “all good pots have foot rings,” but I'm like “nah.”

I don't know whether this is what you are asking,  but if you look just below the title for this thread, also in this ICAN forum, you will see all the past week's questions and answers.

This is a tough one-I have made a good living on glazes that RUN-but thats not my favorite
I like salt pots and and the flashing slips  and crystals  on them as well and heavy salt look of pebble.
The effects of salt like on my fence post demon dog series below
 
 

2 drying in the closet with the rest ready for spray glaze.
Will actually bisque fire the big bowl in the drying closet - need some calcined EPK and need to bisque some more pendants.

I taught HS for 36 years, most years ceramics, computer animation, drawing and painting. I also learned more from teaching others about media than any college taught me. I still learn in the shop most days, as there are always a new problems to solve. I enjoy solving problems and meeting challenges. I still teach, as the forum is here, I have a blog that has some insights into ceramics, and I still mentor some teachers in our area and assist with an adult class at the HS where I used to work. I'm retired, just not done yet.
 
best,
Pres

Art is in the mind of the observer.  
During the creation of an object the maker is the primary observer.  After the object is completed and released, the decision regarding the "artness" of the object is determined by the observer.  Different observers may (will) have different decisions on the placement of the object in the art ---- non-art spectrum.  
The debate within the ceramic "art" domain between art and functional ware is a contrived debate.  All ceramic articles have a function even if that function is to just take up space. The observers, owners, users, ...  are the decision makers as to the specific functionality of the object.  My tea mug has multiple functions.  At this moment its (the mug) function is to keep a fan from blowing paper off the desk. The sculpture across the room functions as both a hat rack and a source of inspiration until I put on my hat and go to the studio, then its function is to be a piece of burnt dirt taking up space and keeping the table from drifting off into the ether while it waits for someone to return and take notice!
LT
 

Merriam-Webster's definition of remarkable is: worthy of being or likely to be noticed especially as being uncommon or extraordinary.
To me, art is remarkable.  It is something you know when you see it because its noticable and uncommon. 
To your point on the separation of "crafts" and "art", crafts are unremarkable.  They blend into the background because you've seen them before, they're uniform, planned and produced by step en masse with no element of thought, creativity or risk. 

I love your results here, particularly the front left.

Put a space heater in the shed overnight and things firmed up enough to trim for the most part.  Got 8 of them trimmed up, probably gonna toss a few where the lids weren't quite matched up.
Tomorrow I'll be wedging and throwing, don't know what yet, something will strike me!

I think that what you get out of school is what you put into it. I know several people who came out of the same programs as me with little to show for it, and others who came out ready to take on the world. I found college and grad school to be a place of a million possibilities. It's where I learned to make pots, and where I learned a ton of technical knowledge that set me on the path toward a career in ceramics. In college and grad school I had far more clay and glaze materials available for testing than I could ever have in my private studio. I had kilns of every type available. I had the knowledge of dozens of other students who had come from other programs. There was no surrendering of free will, self-fulfillment, or creativity. In fact I would say there is far more creativity because a college program has far more resources and knowledge available, which allow you to work in directions you wouldn't be able to do on your own, or didn't even know existed. I had teachers that demanded and supported creativity and experimentation. If I didn't show up to the weekly critiques with something creative I was in trouble. In ceramics, and any art, lack of knowledge and technical skill are stifling. The more you know, the greater the possibilities. And all the non-art classes that I took? Those come in very handy too. Calculus, sociology, biology, writing, Spanish, music, economics, etc. They are all helpful to me as a business owner, husband, parent, and teacher. You can't live in an art bubble.
A college program also has a much faster learning curve, because there is a schedule that must be followed in order to get the grade. You either practice and learn the skill, or your grade suffers. An art center program doesn't have that kind of schedule, so the learning curve is much, much slower. Are you really 'wasting tons of cash and years of your life' if you get more skills in half the time? The whole purpose of an MFA program is to create a body of work that can then be produced and sold when you get out of school. I don't see how that is a waste of time or money.
It's not any cheaper to learn to make pots at an art center than at a college. Say you take a class at a local art center or studio and it costs $150 a month (which is a little low in many places), that's $1800 a year if you go all year. In that class, you're going to learn, at most, 1/2 of what you would in a decent college program (if even that). I know this because I teach community classes. When people only come into the studio once or twice a week,  it takes a lot longer to learn the skills, and the resources aren't there to provide a really comprehensive ceramics education. So if you do the math, you'd need to go 2 years, $3600, to get the equivalent education of one year of a college program. Add in the cost of clay, and in many studios also the cost of glazing and firing, and it's even more. And you probably don't get to load and fire the kilns, or mix glazes, or have formal critiques, or have the variety of kilns and raw materials available to you. Full time tuition at UW Whitewater for residents is $7,692. That's for 4 or more classes, so no more than $1923 a year per class.
Yes, there are some college art programs that are very expensive, but you don't have to go to those. I went to  state schools that were quite inexpensive at the time, and got a better education than my friends that went to the expensive schools. But I also worked really hard to make sure I got a good education. It wasn't just handed to me. I took advantage of all that was available to me and made sure I wasn't leaving anything out. I spent 40+ hours per week in the studio from day one, 70 hours a week in grad school. I helped our lab tech with all of his maintenance jobs. I learned how to fire every kiln. I built kilns. I ran thousands of glaze tests. Not all schools are the same, not all schools are good, and not all schools are a good fit for every person. You have to do your research and figure out what's best for you. I'm sorry if you've had a bad experience with formal education, but to say that all college is bad is inaccurate.
 
 

Oh my, yappy, I would hardly call my attaining a degree something elitist. I was an USAF brat during the 50's and 60's. We lived in many different places, with many different school districts, with good and bad teachers. I had some health problems early on, and was never very large in size, and one to get bullied. Most times it was flight or fight. I chose flight as I was faster, and they were much bigger. I was smart, but stupid in school. I knew the answers, and was eager to answer, at the same time that would bring yourself to center at times and leave you open to more of the pre mentioned problem. Even though smart, I did not do a whole lot of homework, had average grades, and was one of the ones at the back or middle of the class. Even in art I did not excel, as I never really took the time to finish much, getting bored with the process.
This brings me to college years, where the only school I could get into was a community college. . .I wanted to major in Industrial Design, but ended up in a Math/Science track, as there was very little I could afford in the way of an Industrial Design school on the east coast. 2 years later found me with 19 credits of heavy courses, a night job at a supermarket, and tons of homework that buried me. I flunked out. Wrote the Dean a letter that Summer, groveling to get back in as I could not transfer anywhere with my GPA where it was. One year later, I transferred to a state college, with a 1.999 average. They took me on probation on account of three things. . . My board scores back in my senior year of HS were 1200's so I was not stupid, my accum for the last year at community college was 4.9, and when the head of the art department asked what happened and added. . . .did you get a girlfriend? Then asked is she here, I had to answer yes she started the semester before me. So yeah really prestigious beginning, not to mention that before starting the last year at community college I was in a major car accident that put me in the hospital for 2 weeks, and left me basically 4F physically wearing a back brace and chest constrictor for a few years.
No college for me was tough, until I got my head wrapped around it, and got to a place where I found I could succeed. Grades the last few years were well over 3.5, and in grad classes the same. Took me till late 80's to get a MS in Art Ed, but all worth it. Never majored in Ceramics, or any other form of art, but have more studio time than many in a wide variety of media. Much of which I taught in HS
 
humbly,
Pres
 

I think that painting everyone with the same brush is inherently inaccurate.  I submit there are many people who do not justify their good fortune in earning a degree by assuming negative things about others who did not/were not able to go the same route.  Just because  someone is educated and has a degree, that does not automatically tell anybody anything about their life, their values, their struggles, their pain (or joy), their economic status (good or bad) or their politics/philosophy/world view. 
 I always wanted to study art and the creative process as expressed in this and other cultures, now and in history. The value of formal education in developing my skills in ceramics is worth 1000xs the price, for many reasons, and it is still paying off to this day.  As someone who earned a BFA from an esteemed art school, while on welfare and struggling mightily as a single parent with a toddler in tow, and 20 years older than the other students, in deep poverty, at times homeless, with many other crippling hardships, plus the add-on of student loans, I must assert how  enriching, valuable, freeing, and supportive of my creative expression and drive, and my very survival, the experience was.
What I got was a sterling education from the best faculty of knowledgible, competant, and skilled artists/instructors one could ever want. I have carried and used the benefits of that excellent education throughout all aspects of my life, not just in art interactions, but in ctitical thinking, world-view, career, understanding people and cultures, and many other areas of functioning. My formal training was invaluable and has enhanced my creative expression and appreciation of crafts & art. It took nothing away from my innate creative drive, my ideas, my self-concept/identity, or my preferences for working with my materials. When someone is being derisive and dismissive of that "piece of paper" Old Lady's line comes to mind:  "putting you down does not raise me up." Or rather, putting me down does not raise you up.

Making and using my own pottery is my own R&D lab. I do not consciously look at the shape of my hand or lips. It has taken a few years to work out the discomforts of my designs. I detest a mug that dribbles, so lots of R&D on the perfect rim for drinking, close but still not there. With me it is all about how to hold a piece. My hand arthritis dictates that the piece is easy to hold and does not strain the hands. It is pretty cool to make something then use it to find it doesn't work so well. Humbles one rather quickly. Wished I had taken an industrial/ manufacturing design course, or whatever the course would be to teach me ergonomics. Actually I haven't sold much because I don't put it out there. The feel and functionality must be to my expectation before I let it go out of my hands. Lots of R&D.
Favorite piece is the coffee mug. Since recently starting to press texture into the body of the mug, I like using several different mugs. I like the feel of the different textures. My hands are busy feeling the texture in both the body and the handle while using the mug.
If I were an illustrator I could make bowls look more interesting, but I am not. Altering makes the bowls more interesting. We use all sizes of bowls, from the condiment bowl up to the larger mixing bowl.

There are many people who worry that learning common ways of doing things, or other people's ways of doing things, will keep them from discovering uncommon ways of doing things or a unique personal style. 
These are often the same people who believe that small children have better judgment and instincts than people who have been exposed to a range of other people's ideas.
I don't think there is any evidence that exposure to a range of ideas or techniques is stifling. More likely it is stimulating.
There are others who loathe formal education because they were either bored or humiliated by the particular education they received and generalize that to all formal education.
I have also encountered people who are convinced that formally educated people are less disposed to becoming life-long learners than people without formal education. I don't think there is any validity to this assumption.
The question of how much it is reasonable to go into debt or how much time it is reasonable to devote is entirely legitimate. There will also be people who have an exceptional alternative resource available to them that is uncommon, someone who is willing to devote all the time it takes to teach them privately. Most people will not have this option. 
I have taken two ceramics classes. One was an open studio sort of thing with lots of studio access but little instruction. The other involved formal instruction but no access other than during class time to practice space or equipment.
I learned much more from the second than from the first, but these experiences made me wish I had had an opportunity to take a class from a teacher over the course of a three or four month term in which I also had access to the studio to practice. At this point I am unlikely to be able to do that.
 
 
 

Formal education is  a key element in the whole process. I was raised in a art friendy home by educators. I was exposed to ceramics in 5th grade and again in high school. It took hold of part of me and I do not know why. I went on and got an art degree in collage over a 5 year process. I happened to learn from recent graduates from the golden age of Alfred graduates who got their 1st teaching jobs. They learned from the greats-like Rhodes etc. I was at the right place right time. Also one could find materials on the cheap and build kilns and obtain permits may back then. Thats all changed now.
Back in school I fired gas and electrics worked as a tech and fired kilns for work study money-built kilns-made bricks learned clay and glaze formulation
did low fire and high fire and raku and pit firing-made sculpture and made functional wares. Only in school is one exposed to it all and to get all the knowledge one needs to see it all.U-tube cannot hold a candle too this experience.
School was the beginning of my learning experience -Really just a jump off point looking back. Its the foundation of my career but the real learning was in the real world of business and the sheer number of years it takes to get good and succeed .Throwing really well takes everyone different amounts of time to master-for me it was about 7 or eight years to get handles and forms perfected and have then sell well.
I'm a big believer in formal education-our society improves with formal education.
The only downside these days is ceramic education has been slashed nation wide and there has been at least a twenty year bias towards sculpt vs functional wares in many collage programs. You can now get a degree in what I call (jar opening) where you learn very little except low fire sculpture making.Finding a good school these days is work.

There are many people who worry that learning common ways of doing things, or other people's ways of doing things, will keep them from discovering uncommon ways of doing things or a unique personal style. 
These are often the same people who believe that small children have better judgment and instincts than people who have been exposed to a range of other people's ideas.
I don't think there is any evidence that exposure to a range of ideas or techniques is stifling. More likely it is stimulating.
There are others who loathe formal education because they were either bored or humiliated by the particular education they received and generalize that to all formal education.
I have also encountered people who are convinced that formally educated people are less disposed to becoming life-long learners than people without formal education. I don't think there is any validity to this assumption.
The question of how much it is reasonable to go into debt or how much time it is reasonable to devote is entirely legitimate. There will also be people who have an exceptional alternative resource available to them that is uncommon, someone who is willing to devote all the time it takes to teach them privately. Most people will not have this option. 
I have taken two ceramics classes. One was an open studio sort of thing with lots of studio access but little instruction. The other involved formal instruction but no access other than during class time to practice space or equipment.
I learned much more from the second than from the first, but these experiences made me wish I had had an opportunity to take a class from a teacher over the course of a three or four month term in which I also had access to the studio to practice. At this point I am unlikely to be able to do that.
 
 
 

There are many people who worry that learning common ways of doing things, or other people's ways of doing things, will keep them from discovering uncommon ways of doing things or a unique personal style. 
These are often the same people who believe that small children have better judgment and instincts than people who have been exposed to a range of other people's ideas.
I don't think there is any evidence that exposure to a range of ideas or techniques is stifling. More likely it is stimulating.
There are others who loathe formal education because they were either bored or humiliated by the particular education they received and generalize that to all formal education.
I have also encountered people who are convinced that formally educated people are less disposed to becoming life-long learners than people without formal education. I don't think there is any validity to this assumption.
The question of how much it is reasonable to go into debt or how much time it is reasonable to devote is entirely legitimate. There will also be people who have an exceptional alternative resource available to them that is uncommon, someone who is willing to devote all the time it takes to teach them privately. Most people will not have this option. 
I have taken two ceramics classes. One was an open studio sort of thing with lots of studio access but little instruction. The other involved formal instruction but no access other than during class time to practice space or equipment.
I learned much more from the second than from the first, but these experiences made me wish I had had an opportunity to take a class from a teacher over the course of a three or four month term in which I also had access to the studio to practice. At this point I am unlikely to be able to do that.
 
 
 

There are many people who worry that learning common ways of doing things, or other people's ways of doing things, will keep them from discovering uncommon ways of doing things or a unique personal style. 
These are often the same people who believe that small children have better judgment and instincts than people who have been exposed to a range of other people's ideas.
I don't think there is any evidence that exposure to a range of ideas or techniques is stifling. More likely it is stimulating.
There are others who loathe formal education because they were either bored or humiliated by the particular education they received and generalize that to all formal education.
I have also encountered people who are convinced that formally educated people are less disposed to becoming life-long learners than people without formal education. I don't think there is any validity to this assumption.
The question of how much it is reasonable to go into debt or how much time it is reasonable to devote is entirely legitimate. There will also be people who have an exceptional alternative resource available to them that is uncommon, someone who is willing to devote all the time it takes to teach them privately. Most people will not have this option. 
I have taken two ceramics classes. One was an open studio sort of thing with lots of studio access but little instruction. The other involved formal instruction but no access other than during class time to practice space or equipment.
I learned much more from the second than from the first, but these experiences made me wish I had had an opportunity to take a class from a teacher over the course of a three or four month term in which I also had access to the studio to practice. At this point I am unlikely to be able to do that.
 
 
 

There are many people who worry that learning common ways of doing things, or other people's ways of doing things, will keep them from discovering uncommon ways of doing things or a unique personal style. 
These are often the same people who believe that small children have better judgment and instincts than people who have been exposed to a range of other people's ideas.
I don't think there is any evidence that exposure to a range of ideas or techniques is stifling. More likely it is stimulating.
There are others who loathe formal education because they were either bored or humiliated by the particular education they received and generalize that to all formal education.
I have also encountered people who are convinced that formally educated people are less disposed to becoming life-long learners than people without formal education. I don't think there is any validity to this assumption.
The question of how much it is reasonable to go into debt or how much time it is reasonable to devote is entirely legitimate. There will also be people who have an exceptional alternative resource available to them that is uncommon, someone who is willing to devote all the time it takes to teach them privately. Most people will not have this option. 
I have taken two ceramics classes. One was an open studio sort of thing with lots of studio access but little instruction. The other involved formal instruction but no access other than during class time to practice space or equipment.
I learned much more from the second than from the first, but these experiences made me wish I had had an opportunity to take a class from a teacher over the course of a three or four month term in which I also had access to the studio to practice. At this point I am unlikely to be able to do that.
 
 
 

My gravy boat needed a redesign, because the other one was too fussy. So I made a thing. 

We need to add the bling to these jewelry pendants.