QotW: How do you value or differentiate What is art and not art?

[Pres]

So the Hulk clarified his question about value by telling us : 

fwiw, my post to qotw has more t'do with "what is art" (and what is not art) than value of formal education; all good tho', carry on!

Th' topics weave together, surely.

So I will ask the QotW: How do you value or differentiate What is art and not art? I am assuming we are getting into the Art vs Craft discussion again, but then maybe there is more to it than just that. 

For me, there is that thing which is lower than craft, and this time of year we see a lot of it. I consider the glued together, tossed together stuff of decorative glitz used for the seasons, especially fall and winter. The combination of machine made, natural, natural covered with glitter, fake natural all pulled together with glue or wire to decorate. Hmmmm! Take a step up and consider the early stages of any craftsman, the learner that one day be considered a true craftsman of wood, metal, clay or whatever. Nice stuff, but still a layer at the bottom of CRAFT. I was there at one time, and all of us have to be. Then we start to evolve, not just making a form, but thinking about why me make the form, how to make it more efficiently, how to make it more useful, how to make it more decoartive or interesting. Through this thoughtful investigation we start to create true Craft objects, often very useful, aesthetically pleasing, and a joy to use. It brings a different dimension to those lives that use them. Then there are those that are still making functional objects, and have evolved in such an aesthetic, that their work is often considered Art. I give you Martha Glover as an example, where her organic wheel thrown porcelain forms with understated color are often described as art. There are others over the centuries that lift the simple functional object to art. Lastly we come to those rogues, those pioneers, or renegades that have lifted the world of functional ceramic into the realm of Art by their audacity and creativity. We would list many of the artist/craftspeople from the 60's and 70's, such as Voulkos, Autio, Callas, Paul Soldner, Takaezu, Mason, Price, and so many others that I dare not try to name them all. Too many. 

I do not presume to judge, as there are many pieces of work that I would not consider art myself, but they have cleared the way for a form of expression that has mirrored much of what was going on in the art world at the same time. They have also established clay as gallery art, something that before the 20th century was not as often considered in an Art museum. It is nice to be able to see ceramic pieces of all ilk displayed along with paintings, sculptures and other media.

 

Value. . . decide for yourself!

 

 

best,

Pres

[Mark C.]

Art engages my thought process more-In  collage pursuing a BA in art I made art-that art is still around my world .Ceramic sculptures in the yard drawings in tubes-painting long ago destroyed .I no longer make much art. I know how-I like to view others at shows .I still do some for myself daily for fence and yard-never to sell.

For me its a luxury as I'm in the business of making money with ceramics and  making ceramic art is just to hard to do that with. I have made some for fun in my salt kiln like kiln demon dogs for my fence but never to try to sell.I like to make art for myself  as noted as its an outlet for expression I like .

Salt pots are the same deal for me I cannot make them along with my weekly fictional work . I must clear the plate and have fun with salt wares as they are not meant for the market.

I think you know art when you see it-most of my pots are not art but functional wares.Yes I have made a salt face jug or two and that was art.

[liambesaw]

Merriam-Webster's definition of remarkable is: worthy of being or likely to be noticed especially as being uncommon or extraordinary.

To me, art is remarkable.  It is something you know when you see it because its noticable and uncommon. 

To your point on the separation of "crafts" and "art", crafts are unremarkable.  They blend into the background because you've seen them before, they're uniform, planned and produced by step en masse with no element of thought, creativity or risk. 

[glazenerd]

Ah yes, the age old discussion arises again! 

Art evokes an emotional response. In pottery; art is the combination of form, color palette, and proportion. Although, in some select cases I have seen texture create interest. The Scarab Vase by Adelaide Robineau  would be a prime example of art. There are pieces at the University Museum ( formally the University Pottery 1908-1915) that also qualify. ( Taxtile Doat ) I have seen pieces on this forum I would be willing to pay premium prices for. I drink coffee out of hand crafted mugs.

Just now, Pres said:

For me, there is that thing which is lower than craft, and this time of year we see a lot of it. I consider the glued together, tossed together stuff of decorative glitz used for the seasons, especially fall and winter

The imported flea market filler I would agree. I have also seen a diverse level of quality that I do not lump into that category. As I have also seen pieces on this forum that simply reflect where the potter is presently at on the learning curve.i have been here long enough to see those same potters make noticeable progress in skill sets. My early adventures certainly qualified for road fill. Actually some of my recent thrown pieces qualify as well; but fortunately my pugger is nearby.

i think the common thread for both art and craft is personal preference and interpretation. Where else besides here are you going to find lengthy threads on " the perfect handle."  There are pages on how runny the perfect glaze run should be. I recall a lengthy thread on what constitutes the perfect lip on a mug. So I can easily see why the lines between art and craft get blurry.

Nerd

[C.Banks]

I like the idea that art is a communication of sorts.

When a nice matte glaze whispers 'touch me' and the simple form asks to be held this communication seperates the average from the exceptional.

Maybe in this way functional ware can be seen as art

[Magnolia Mud Research]

Art is in the mind of the observer.  

During the creation of an object the maker is the primary observer.  After the object is completed and released, the decision regarding the "artness" of the object is determined by the observer.  Different observers may (will) have different decisions on the placement of the object in the art ---- non-art spectrum.  

The debate within the ceramic "art" domain between art and functional ware is a contrived debate.  All ceramic articles have a function even if that function is to just take up space. The observers, owners, users, ...  are the decision makers as to the specific functionality of the object.  My tea mug has multiple functions.  At this moment its (the mug) function is to keep a fan from blowing paper off the desk. The sculpture across the room functions as both a hat rack and a source of inspiration until I put on my hat and go to the studio, then its function is to be a piece of burnt dirt taking up space and keeping the table from drifting off into the ether while it waits for someone to return and take notice!

LT

 

[Gabby]

Because craft is aimed at practical use, workmanship may be more important there than in art.  Art typically appeals to the senses and can without particularly fine workmanship or durability or even intention.

Art tends to embody an aesthetic idea or interpretation.

[glazenerd]

The Scarab Vase by Adelaide Robineau 1911. ( current value $1,000,000.00 )

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/28006828910403644/

this link has some of her other work.  To me a piece of art, to others........

Edited October 14, 2018 by glazenerd
Date edited.

[LeeU]

I deleted my post-too esoteric even for me. Probably the hardest question there is---is it art? Or, what is art? 

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by LeeU

[Chilly]

On 10/14/2018 at 5:36 PM, Magnolia Mud Research said:

Art is in the mind of the observer.  
 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

So is Art. 

If you like it, can live with it, or make money from it, it is good (valuable) art.  If you don't like it, and no-one else does, it has no value.

I do not call myself an artist.  I can create, I can be inspired, I can adapt ideas.

TBH, I don't get most art.  But I do know that sometimes I see something and think "I like that".  Sometimes it is recognition of a skill, sometimes it just pulls your eyes, sometimes there is no reason