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Need New Clay To Throw Bigger And Thin


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#1 Chantay

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 12:17 AM

I am looking for a new clay.  I have been throwing with Standard 240.  I find when I try and throw a medium size bowl, 3-4 lbs, that the wall is collapsing before I can pull up much height.  I'm thinking this is a clay problem.  I fire cone 6 electric.  I only have standard and Highwater clays available.  I used little loafers before but find it difficult to work with.  I'm looking for a white and red body.  Any suggestions?  I prefer not to work with a lot of grog.  I had used bumcomb white before and felt like I was sanding my hands down.

 

 

 


- chantay

#2 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:19 AM

Have you tried throwing drier?

Your clay has more strength if you don't get it really wet.

Put a few drops of vinegar in the throwing water and use less water.

 

Just try it first.

 

Marcia



#3 clay lover

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:33 AM

I really like Redstone from Highwater. It seems to climb up my hands! Nice on glazes that break also.
Also get along well with Ellen Buff, but agree on Buncome white. I don't use any of Highwater's whites ^6, but their glazes are nice.

#4 Biglou13

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:08 AM

Taller bigger thinner......

I used to work at a bike shop. On occasion people,usually weekend riders, would come in and want a product that would want a product that would "make me faster", often these people would have state of the art bicycles already. Sure we had some wise cracking. Commentary when they left especially when the left buying the new whatever makesmegofasterproduct. Well the jist of the wisecracking was the TRUTH. (Conjuring my best yoda voice)....

The answer you with in you , bicycle will make you faster go, it will not............only you will make it faster.

The clay is only a small portion of bigger taller thinner, but training, skill and practice education is the lion share of your answer.

See 12 inch club post. http://community.cer...nch-club/page-2. Especially Neil's video.

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I cast no aspersions on your skill set
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#5 Chantay

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 11:38 AM

I'm just need to let the clay dry out some.  I keep it really soft so it is easier on the hands.  This morn I threw a bowl and let it sit after the first two pulls to firm up.  Went up much easier after that.  May try a different clay anyway. 

 

Big Lou, I will have to strive for membership into the 12 in. club, thanks for the link.


- chantay

#6 JBaymore

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 11:44 AM

Taller bigger thinner......

I used to work at a bike shop. On occasion people,usually weekend riders, would come in and want a product that would want a product that would "make me faster", often these people would have state of the art bicycles already. Sure we had some wise cracking. Commentary when they left especially when the left buying the new whatever makesmegofasterproduct. Well the jist of the wisecracking was the TRUTH. (Conjuring my best yoda voice)....

The answer you with in you , bicycle will make you faster go, it will not............only you will make it faster.

The clay is only a small portion of bigger taller thinner, but training, skill and practice education is the lion share of your answer.

 

:)  ;)  :D

 

Ah.... wise in the ways of the clay you have become.  Well this will serve you.

 

Ahhhhh........ throwing thinner and taller......... your training.... your training complete, you must.

 

best,

 

...............john


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#7 MikeFaul

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 01:14 PM

I am looking for a new clay.  I have been throwing with Standard 240.  I find when I try and throw a medium size bowl, 3-4 lbs, that the wall is collapsing before I can pull up much height.  I'm thinking this is a clay problem.  I fire cone 6 electric.  I only have standard and Highwater clays available.  I used little loafers before but find it difficult to work with.  I'm looking for a white and red body.  Any suggestions?  I prefer not to work with a lot of grog.  I had used bumcomb white before and felt like I was sanding my hands down.

 

We've been throwing 240G, larger bowls (5 pounds) with no problem on the throwing side, We've had many a struggle with the clay not playing well with our glazes though. We've decided to move one and are getting ready to test 181, 563, and 630... 

 

Mike



#8 JBaymore

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 01:59 PM

I find when I try and throw a medium size bowl, 3-4 lbs, that the wall is collapsing before I can pull up much height. 

 

Chantay... can you give more of a size description than "medium bowl"?  That would greatly help people decide if it is a question of the clay or skill development.  Like height wheel head to top lip and the diameter at the widest point and the general shape of the desired bowl (V shaped, rounded U type curve, and so on....... or a picture). 

 

But the combination of "medium bowl" and "3-4 pounds" makes it sound like more of a skill development thing as both biglou and I have implied/said.

 

If you send me your email addrress (via PM here) I would be willing to send you one of my core throwing exercise handouts I use at the college in MS Word .docx format.  Following that progression will go a LONG way toward developing your throwing skills.... no matter what the clay.  Warning though...... it is not for the "faint of heart".  It will require commitment.

 

best,

 

..................john


John Baymore
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Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

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#9 Pres

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 02:08 PM

I have been throwing for mostly 30 years with SC 112 &225, some 240, and recently 211. I have found that with all of these clays it is best to center with some water, then cut back on the water when pulling. I throw anythng from 2-12# bowls with these clays.

The other thing you might find is that your first pull be up perpendicular to wheel head on outside with inside at you rounded bowl curve. Pull up , then last few pulls outward and shape. If looking for thin, some has to come from the pulling, some from the shaping. Worse thing to do on any bowl is to allow the rim to get too thin-it needs the thickness to act as a band to keep round and keep from collapse. If looking for thinner rims, pull after bowl has set up some. I cover the rim with saran wrap to let rest of area set up.  Practice, practice, practice.


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#10 neilestrick

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 03:38 PM

240 can be difficult if it is too wet, and lately it seems that it has been on the wet side of useable. Let it dry a bit and try it again. Also give 630 a try. No grog, but it does have some fireclay, so it's a bit more forgiving.


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#11 Babs

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:23 PM

 

I find when I try and throw a medium size bowl, 3-4 lbs, that the wall is collapsing before I can pull up much height. 

 

Chantay... can you give more of a size description than "medium bowl"?  That would greatly help people decide if it is a question of the clay or skill development.  Like height wheel head to top lip and the diameter at the widest point and the general shape of the desired bowl (V shaped, rounded U type curve, and so on....... or a picture). 

 

But the combination of "medium bowl" and "3-4 pounds" makes it sound like more of a skill development thing as both biglou and I have implied/said.

 

If you send me your email addrress (via PM here) I would be willing to send you one of my core throwing exercise handouts I use at the college in MS Word .docx format.  Following that progression will go a LONG way toward developing your throwing skills.... no matter what the clay.  Warning though...... it is not for the "faint of heart".  It will require commitment.

 

best,

 

..................john

 

As a trial and error self taught potter, may I have a copy of this, John? Old dog may learn new tricks!



#12 JBaymore

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:40 PM

As a trial and error self taught potter, may I have a copy of this, John? Old dog may learn new tricks!

 

Sure... PM me.

 

best,

 

.............john


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#13 Chantay

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 11:25 PM

I guess I'm just tired.  I had forgotten that I had thrown some wet sponges into the clay bag.  I started doing this to get the clay softer so I could center something over 2lbs :wacko:   A three pound bowl today was about 8.5 wide by 5 inches tall with a about 1/2 inch bottom.(what I call medium)  It probably had a couple of extra ounces of water!  Just keep throwing, just keep throwing.....


- chantay

#14 JBaymore

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 10:36 AM

A note on that throwing handout I mentioned. 

 

It is a set of exercises.  It assumes that you have had (and continue to have) good in-person coaching on the basic mechanical skills of centering and throwing.  Meaning that it does not cover THAT part of the spectrum of skills.

 

It is very much like once you learn to play a solid basic A and a C and a B note on the guitar or trumpet, it is like the fingering exercises that FOLLOW that aspect of the core learning process.

 

Also for context, the handout sheet is from a 3 credit 200 level BFA course....... so it is not a "first timers" kind of thing.  It is targeted at very low intermediate throwers who have had a 3 credit intro survey course and also a 3 credit Wheel 1 level course.  The goal is to gain mechanical throwing skills ........... asthetic aspects are a separate (not covered much here) subject.

 

It also use it sometimes for a solid 300 level throwing course as a set of "remedial" and developmental exercises to refine skills that might be at less than desired levels.

 

The really hard part of these exercises for a lot of people is the REPETITION aspects that are SO crucial to the success.  And the fact that NOTHING IS BEING KEPT.   These are "warm up" exercises.... not the game itself. 

 

Students hate me for a while....... until realization suddenly pops in and they notice how much better their throwing skills have somehow become.  ;)

 

best,

 

........................john


John Baymore
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Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

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#15 Babs

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 04:12 PM

A note on that throwing handout I mentioned. 

 

It is a set of exercises.  It assumes that you have had (and continue to have) good in-person coaching on the basic mechanical skills of centering and throwing.  Meaning that it does not cover THAT part of the spectrum of skills.

 

It is very much like once you learn to play a solid basic A and a C and a B note on the guitar or trumpet, it is like the fingering exercises that FOLLOW that aspect of the core learning process.

 

Also for context, the handout sheet is from a 3 credit 200 level BFA course....... so it is not a "first timers" kind of thing.  It is targeted at very low intermediate throwers who have had a 3 credit intro survey course and also a 3 credit Wheel 1 level course.  The goal is to gain mechanical throwing skills ........... asthetic aspects are a separate (not covered much here) subject.

 

It also use it sometimes for a solid 300 level throwing course as a set of "remedial" and developmental exercises to refine skills that might be at less than desired levels.

 

The really hard part of these exercises for a lot of people is the REPETITION aspects that are SO crucial to the success.  And the fact that NOTHING IS BEING KEPT.   These are "warm up" exercises.... not the game itself. 

 

Students hate me for a while....... until realization suddenly pops in and they notice how much better their throwing skills have somehow become.  ;)

 

best,

 

........................john

Thanks John, only when time is short that I don't like the throw away aspect. I am going to use your notes as a treat! Like when others go in for a triathletic event or something. When experiencing  the student hate, some even verbalise this, it's nice to be able to smile and have a non reactive moment and wait.. :)



#16 Biglou13

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:51 AM

......until realization suddenly pops in and they notice how much better their throwing skills have somehow become.  ;)
 
best,
 
........................john


( in my best Deep South, tent revival voice)

Can I get a witness??
Please believe it. !!!!
Preach it brother John!!


Ok for real, I can vouch for that statement. I pul at least a dozen cylinders every time i sit at wheel some I keep (handle-less mugs, cups, yunomi), most end up in recycled clay bucket. (nothing lasts nothing perfect nothing finished)


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#17 Pres

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 07:47 AM

I once took a job, pittance pay, but wanted to learn how to throw cylinders off hump, without cracking.  2K later I was able to do it. Still can.


Simply retired teacher, not dead, living the dream. on and on and. . . . on. . . .                                                                                 http://picworkspottery.blogspot.com/





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