Guilt and the sponge

[spring]

I just saw this post and I gotta say it made me smile. 25 responses about someone questioning the use of his sponge. I mean, can you imagine what the non-ceramicy person perusing this forum would think. Ahhh, Ceramics!

[Pres]

I just saw this post and I gotta say it made me smile. 25 responses about someone questioning the use of his sponge. I mean, can you imagine what the non-ceramicy person perusing this forum would think. Ahhh, Ceramics!

 

Ahhh potters and their guilty . . . pleasures!

[Benzine]

Pre-Centered clay does exist.........In a way:

 

http://www.dickblick.com/products/brent-quickcenter-system/

[Guest JBaymore]

Pre-Centered clay does exist.........In a way:

 

http://www.dickblick...kcenter-system/

 

Ah... America... land of instant gratification. :rolleyes:src="http://ceramicartsdaily.org/community/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif">

 

best,

 

..............john

[Nelly]

Pre-Centered clay does exist.........In a way:

 

http://www.dickblick...kcenter-system/

 

Ah... America... land of instant gratification. :rolleyes:src="http://ceramicartsdaily.org/community/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif">

 

best,

 

..............john

 

 

Dear All,

 

I watched the dickblick video and the precentering system. Wow, is that ever strange. I wonder if it is for real?? I felt like I was watching a commercial for one of those vegetable chopping machines that you'd get at a flea market. Like John, I too am rolling my eyes.

 

Nelly

[Natania]

I also have seen this device advertised. It seems that learning to center is a right of passage for learning to throw. Seems somehow wrong to skip the first and most important step. Also the thing is probably more trouble than is centering really! Another example of someone making money by convincing people they need an invention that they don't. if we want plates made by a machine, we can buy them at Walmart.

[bciskepottery]

Warren McKenzie said it best (to a group of high school students visiting his studio): "Centering is over-rated."

[Nelly]

Warren McKenzie said it best (to a group of high school students visiting his studio): "Centering is over-rated."

 

 

Dear Bciskepottery,

 

I think if I saw this same clip he mentions that there is a point where a bowl or vessel looks good in the perfect form and then it loses its beauty due to it's overt perfectiion. While not a verbatim transcript, this was the sentiment. I try to remember this adage when throwing. We spend so much time trying to become perfect or exact in our technique that when it comes time to be playful and really allow for inner expression it can get lost for a while...at least that is the point I am at. On my bucket list for the year is something about allowing myself to make things and simply attach them without rhyme or reason. My guess is that through this process, I will return to a place of discovery. A place that sets me on a new path in my pottery development.

 

Nelly

[Benzine]

Pre-Centered clay does exist.........In a way:

 

http://www.dickblick...kcenter-system/

 

 

Ah... America... land of instant gratification. :rolleyes:src="http://ceramicartsdaily.org/community/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif">

 

best,

 

..............john

 

 

Yeah, I almost consider it "Cheating". But it's not like the device is perfect. It appears you can only center a set amount of clay, which I guess would be fine, if you want all of your vessels to be roughly the same size.

[Nelly]

Pre-Centered clay does exist.........In a way:

 

http://www.dickblick...kcenter-system/

 

 

Ah... America... land of instant gratification. :rolleyes:src="http://ceramicartsda...lt/rolleyes.gif">

 

best,

 

..............john

 

 

Yeah, I almost consider it "Cheating". But it's not like the device is perfect. It appears you can only center a set amount of clay, which I guess would be fine, if you want all of your vessels to be roughly the same size.

 

 

Funny, when I watched that clip on the centering device, all I could think of was a used car salesperson--the language was stilted and repetitive. Hypnotic. Somebody, somewhere will likely go and buy this device in the hurdles required to center. Not sure of the cost but I do see it as a bit of a waste of time. It is similar to that new arm thing that they are promoting now to center clay. Not sure if you have seen this advertisement. If you haven't I will look it up and send you this clip.

 

Nelly

[Nelly]

Pre-Centered clay does exist.........In a way:

 

http://www.dickblick...kcenter-system/

 

 

Ah... America... land of instant gratification. :rolleyes:src="http://ceramicartsda...lt/rolleyes.gif">

 

best,

 

..............john

 

 

Yeah, I almost consider it "Cheating". But it's not like the device is perfect. It appears you can only center a set amount of clay, which I guess would be fine, if you want all of your vessels to be roughly the same size.

 

 

Funny, when I watched that clip on the centering device, all I could think of was a used car salesperson--the language was stilted and repetitive. Hypnotic. Somebody, somewhere will likely go and buy this device in the hurdles required to center. Not sure of the cost but I do see it as a bit of a waste of time. It is similar to that new arm thing that they are promoting now to center clay. Not sure if you have seen this advertisement. If you haven't I will look it up and send you this clip.

 

Nelly

 

 

Here it is "the strong arm."

 

 

 

Nelly

[Mark C.]

With the arm you get not one But two bamboo steamers and a full set of Ginzo knifes and if you hurry and order right now we will throw in for free a sponge.

Extra separate shipping charges will apply to free sponge

Tonight only only 39.95 plus shipping and handling in three easy payments

make checks payable to Ginzo sponge team and easy centering

As seen on TV-the real deal no more meshy centering this could be you with a centered ball of clay-its that easy.

[Nelly]

With the arm you get not one But two bamboo steamers and a full set of Ginzo knifes and if you hurry and order right now we will throw in for free a sponge.

Extra separate shipping charges will apply to free sponge

Tonight only only 39.95 plus shipping and handling in three easy payments

make checks payable to Ginzo sponge team and easy centering

As seen on TV-the real deal no more meshy centering this could be you with a centered ball of clay-its that easy.

 

 

Dear Mark,

 

Oh you did make me smile with this response. Very creative!!

 

Nelly

[OffCenter]

Warren McKenzie said it best (to a group of high school students visiting his studio): "Centering is over-rated."

 

 

I think so, too!

 

Offcenter

[Guest JBaymore]

Pre-Centered clay does exist.........In a way:

 

http://www.dickblick...kcenter-system/

 

 

Ah... America... land of instant gratification. :rolleyes:src="http://ceramicartsda...lt/rolleyes.gif">

 

best,

 

..............john

 

 

Yeah, I almost consider it "Cheating". But it's not like the device is perfect. It appears you can only center a set amount of clay, which I guess would be fine, if you want all of your vessels to be roughly the same size.

 

 

 

Actually I don't consider it "cheating". It is derailing necessary learning.

 

Learning to center is not ONLY about centering the clay. The development of sensory awareness, the understanding of the motion of the plastic clay when acted upon by the forces like the driven wheel head and the friction of the fingers, and other such stuff is critically important to all throwing activities and developing to be a good thrower.

 

This device puts the goal posts in the wrong place for the beginning ceramist. It makes the object the goal, not the learning. TOTALLY wrong emphasis.

 

Tools like the Giffin Grip, the Strong Arm, and maybe even the centering device (I'm skeptical on that one ;)src="http://ceramicartsdaily.org/community/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif"> ) are best used and evaluated AFTER you have acquired the skills to not NEED them. Then you can appropriately evaluate them as to their suitability for your work. Using them too soon, shorcuts important skill development.

 

Once you can quickly center clay to obsessively tight concentric levels.... then is the time to work on not centering the clay so rigidly......letting the clay have a voice as a raw material.

 

 

best,

 

..............john

[OffCenter]

Warren McKenzie said it best (to a group of high school students visiting his studio): "Centering is over-rated."

 

 

I think so, too!

 

Offcenter

 

 

But you should be damn good at it before you decide that it is a handicap.

 

Jim

[Pres]

Pre-Centered clay does exist.........In a way:

 

http://www.dickblick...kcenter-system/

 

 

Ah... America... land of instant gratification. :rolleyes:src="http://ceramicartsda...lt/rolleyes.gif">

 

best,

 

..............john

 

 

Yeah, I almost consider it "Cheating". But it's not like the device is perfect. It appears you can only center a set amount of clay, which I guess would be fine, if you want all of your vessels to be roughly the same size.

 

 

 

Actually I don't consider it "cheating". It is derailing necessary learning.

 

Learning to center is not ONLY about centering the clay. The development of sensory awareness, the understanding of the motion of the plastic clay when acted upon by the forces like the driven wheel head and the friction of the fingers, and other such stuff is critically important to all throwing activities and developing to be a good thrower.

 

This device puts the goal posts in the wrong place for the beginning ceramist. It makes the object the goal, not the learning. TOTALLY wrong emphasis.

 

Tools like the Giffin Grip, the Strong Arm, and maybe even the centering device (I'm skeptical on that one ;)src="http://ceramicartsdaily.org/community/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif"> ) are best used and evaluated AFTER you have acquired the skills to not NEED them. Then you can appropriately evaluate them as to their suitability for your work. Using them too soon, shorcuts important skill development.

 

Once you can quickly center clay to obsessively tight concentric levels.... then is the time to work on not centering the clay so rigidly......letting the clay have a voice as a raw material.

 

 

best,

 

..............john

 

 

I taught my students to "master" the clay, the pushing up and down of the clay ball before the actual centering. I believed that when a student could successfully move the clay in this manner that they would understand the forces need to center, and to pull. On that strain, I taught the students that compression of the base and setting up of the walls of the pot were as important as getting the clay centered. More thoughts for one to 'sponge" up.

[Benzine]

Pre-Centered clay does exist.........In a way:

 

http://www.dickblick...kcenter-system/

 

 

Ah... America... land of instant gratification. :rolleyes:src="http://ceramicartsda...lt/rolleyes.gif">

 

best,

 

..............john

 

 

Yeah, I almost consider it "Cheating". But it's not like the device is perfect. It appears you can only center a set amount of clay, which I guess would be fine, if you want all of your vessels to be roughly the same size.

 

 

 

Actually I don't consider it "cheating". It is derailing necessary learning.

 

Learning to center is not ONLY about centering the clay. The development of sensory awareness, the understanding of the motion of the plastic clay when acted upon by the forces like the driven wheel head and the friction of the fingers, and other such stuff is critically important to all throwing activities and developing to be a good thrower.

 

This device puts the goal posts in the wrong place for the beginning ceramist. It makes the object the goal, not the learning. TOTALLY wrong emphasis.

 

Tools like the Giffin Grip, the Strong Arm, and maybe even the centering device (I'm skeptical on that one ;)src="http://ceramicartsdaily.org/community/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif"> ) are best used and evaluated AFTER you have acquired the skills to not NEED them. Then you can appropriately evaluate them as to their suitability for your work. Using them too soon, shorcuts important skill development.

 

Once you can quickly center clay to obsessively tight concentric levels.... then is the time to work on not centering the clay so rigidly......letting the clay have a voice as a raw material.

 

 

best,

 

..............john

 

 

 

Very well put John.

 

Is it me, or is the "Strong Arm" device basically a jarring or jiggering set up?

[Dinah]

I've changed techniques as time goes on and I get smarter. I use a sponge now to help pull. And I'm on record here for using the slap stack Japanese method of throwing a large vessel. I use a metal kidney to clear slurry from outside of tall work. I use a rubber kidney to clear slurry from outside of tall work as well. Depends on the body I'm throwing. And its condition. I have a sponge wadged and whipped onto the bottom of a long stick to clear the inside of a vessel. Actually, using a sponge to assist throwing the past couple of years has been revelatory. Nice surface emerges. At various stages of throwing and turning. I used to just use hands. In and out. Didn't know better! :lol:/> But, I've always used a scrap of chamois inserted and knotted into a bead or cork to clear off/help form a rim/lip. Sorry to enter discussion so late.