Lepidolite

[glazenerd]

Anyone know a USA source for lepidolite. (Mica/lithium rich mineral) --- not finding anything.

Tom

[oldlady]

i had some a thousand years ago.  will look in the small containers, i know i do not have a tub of it.  too cold out there right now, tomorrow,

[Guest JBaymore]

It has long been "off the market" that I know of.  It was a great alternative to other lithium sources.  If anyone one finds a source I'd love to know also.  I have about 50 pounds that I hoard.

best,

........................john

[glazenerd]

John:

I see you have a "hoarding" problem. They suggest you just bring in dumpsters to help overcome this problem. I will have a 50lb dumpster there Monday, just to help get you started.. My treat.

Actually I am in the middle of tracking down a source, the better grades come from African mines. Will keep you posted, but have to buy it by the ton. However, my supplier said he would be more than happy to help distribute it: less what I keep. 

[Mark C.]

https://www.rightrocks.com/shop/crushed/crushed-lepidolite-powder-natural/

[Guest JBaymore]

Let's see here............ 

50 Pounds............ 200 1/4 pound lots.  $36.00 a 1/4 pound x 200 =  $7,200.00 

The heck with hoarding!!!!    (and dumpsters  )

best,

.........................john

 

 

[glazenerd]

Mark:

 I was trying to help john with his hoarding issue and you went threw a monkey,bucks, currency, and coins in the wench. Now the poor guy will be stuck with 50lb bags of stuff all over the place. 

Nerd.

 

China has it for the bargain basement price of $535 a ton, plus $1000 shipping. Then again, I try to buy local. So my next stop I guess will be a go fund me page: a Nerd lepidolite mine.com.   I only need a few million. Donors?

[Mark C.]

Laguna has two types of Mica course and 325 grind is that stuff close enough for you to lepidolite?1.304$ per ton-that a per pound price x 2000#s or $3.26 per one # lot

I'm working today on my yearly order  today so I had the recent material list handy

[glazenerd]

Mark:

Mica (muscovite) is a potassium alumino- silicate. I have nearly 1000lbs out there @0.48 per lb. 

Lepidolite is also a mica, but lithium based. Also has two other rare earth oxides that begin melting around 1250F. Those two I suspect is the reason it is nearly impossible to find in the USA. You can buy it in Europe for roughly $2 lb any day of the week. The only mines in this country were in CA. And in NC. Both long closed. 

[Mark C.]

Guess I never needed it

My guess is not much demand in industry either.

[Marcia Selsor]

I have about 20 pounds hoarded with my frit 283

Marcia

 

[glazenerd]

Mark:

The lithium-ion battery industry is buying up most of the supply. Pending purity, most lepidolite has 10% lithium! and is much easier to extract compared to spodumene or petalite. 

Marcia- another hoarder!!!!!!   Pemco 283 and lepidolite is gold in the crystalline glaze world.

[Tyler Miller]

I’m going to go ahead and perform the role of the mod here, since that’s not being performed.  1) lepidolite’s Lithium is not tied up with oxygen, but with fluorine.  You have to heat the stuff to dissociate the fluoride and get lithium oxide (not to mention the potash).  This will accelerate kiln and person wear.  There are stories on this very forum of health effects of fluoride in glazes. Its dust is also pretty bad news 

2)  This thread is coming dangerously close to breaking the talk business don’t do business rule.

 

 

[Babs]

tyler,think most has been written tongue in cheek or up left nostril, no one is in the business, just helping or not helping but teasing other potters, a couple of whom have a great history of handling chemicals, a little "lepidolite" relief in our serious lives:-\/

[C.Banks]

This discussion on lepidolite has encouraged me to reevaluate my use of fluorspar.

I knew fluorine was bad but when i saw the results from a series of cone 10 reduction results I turned a blind eye to what i suspected was a noxious ingredient.

The batch size is only just becoming 'workable' so I'm not too heavily invested but dang that little voice is bothering me again.

This glaze is becoming one of my favorites. It has depth and breaks nicely with pleasant variations in colour and texture. It also has fluorspar.

As with any relationship there are some craze lines and issues with application thickness but we can work through them. The bugbear now, again, is flourspar.

Soo dang - i'm now looking at this nice shape with a brave application ready for a spot on the bag wall and thinking it may be another limited edition.

My upbringing is firmly rooted in functional tableware so food safe surfaces are always a priority where necessary. But concern for the potter was not always foremost. Add this with the cost of replacing kiln shelves or rebuilding kilns and i'm about ready to look for substitutions. The first candidate is lithium.

There are always options. The end result will change but someone told me once, when working through a glaze issue, to not get too hung up on what we think we want. Goodness knows i've overlooked tiles only to find them again months later and wonder why the 'character' was not obvious. I had a short conversation once with a fellow who found and lost a beautiful character. I always felt the ideas reflected well into everyday life. The fellow, from what little i knew, was a beautiful character.

anyway - some thoughts i felt might be worth sharing - more than I intended but words are funny that way

[Min]

6 hours ago, C.Banks said:

that little voice is bothering me again.

Whenever I try and avoid that little voice I regret it sooner or later.

 

[glazenerd]

C. Banks

There are five or six grades of fluorspar, but Fed. Regs will only allow the sale of acid grade to the general public. By chance have you read the MSDS sheet on acid grade fluorspar from Laguna?

section two will be of interest to you, as will section ten. Section ten deals with reactivity of this material, which states:

that hydroflouric gases may be released at temperatures above 1000C, in the presence of moisture.

That said, caution is a good thing. Gloves, masks, and ventilation should always be observed. My kilns are in a building over 200 feet from my house, with lots of power ventilation. If they were in my garage or basement, there are certain materials I would not use.

[Tyler Miller]

It has to be said, there is a 100% chance of the hazardous conditions detailed in the laguna fluorspar msds forming in a reduction firing. 1). Water is a product of hydrocarbon combustion.  A necessity in reduction.  2).  The temperature is elevated. 3) Amorphous silica is present. 4). Reducing agents are present.

The violent reaction is what makes the pretty results.  I’m not telling people not to use it, but fluorine compounds are not to be trifled with.

[neilestrick]

20 hours ago, Tyler Miller said:

I’m going to go ahead and perform the role of the mod here, since that’s not being performed.  1) lepidolite’s Lithium is not tied up with oxygen, but with fluorine.  You have to heat the stuff to dissociate the fluoride and get lithium oxide (not to mention the potash).  This will accelerate kiln and person wear.  There are stories on this very forum of health effects of fluoride in glazes. Its dust is also pretty bad news 

2)  This thread is coming dangerously close to breaking the talk business don’t do business rule.

 

 

1) It's not the moderator's job to be the safety police. The responsibility for the safety the material being discussed here falls on those in the discussion. If the moderator sees fit to add something to the discussion, so be it, but his job is to moderate the interactions and ensure that people are following the rules and guidelines of the forum, not to verify the accuracy of the discussion, including omissions of safety hazards. To accuse him of not doing his job in this discussion is inaccurate.

2) There was never any serious discussion of business. And our moderator was part of that discussion.

[Tyler Miller]

Neil, it probably should not be his job.  But I also feel it’s not a complete discussion without mention of the fact that lepidolite produces fluorine on firing.  That’s a big deal.  I’ve said I don’t think lead glaze recipes should be published, and you’ve said it was a poor ideal for me to say copper was mostly safe in glazes. Your argument was one of liability.  And to some extent you have a point, and I changed my post to reflect that point.  

Here’s my point.  It is a phenomenon in the information age that publishers are held responsible for content.  It’s why some academic publishers won’t publish certain research.  It is also true that a forum is a publication platform, and as such, the representatives of that platform have. responsibility to police safety and adequately disclaim posts.  (This is unfortunate.) Lest the forum run into legal trouble when little Timmy decides he wants to watch his lepidolite glaze fire.  

It is also the case that John has policed safety in the past.

As for the second point.  I stand by it.  When someone asks for a source for a product and three people say they have that product, that’s dangerously close to doing business, not talking business.

I’m done now, okay?  Actually, one last thing google “fluorine martyrs.”  The isolation attempt killed or severely injured a lot of men.

[Mark C.]

On 11/26/2017 at 11:36 AM, Mark C. said:

Laguna has two types of Mica course and 325 grind is that stuff close enough for you to lepidolite?1.304$ per ton-that a per pound price x 2000#s or $3.26 per one # lot

I'm working today on my yearly order  today so I had the recent material list handy

Prices are for your info from Laguna price list 8/17

[C.Banks]

In response to Nerds' question and to be perfectly honest I have never looked at the MSDS for anything ceramic. The hazards of dust and vapours are certainly not lost on me i've just had plenty to do with more 'presumably' benign materials - i still do for that matter.  I'll spare the forum my feelings against REEs(rare earth elements) in ceramics.

 

[GEP]

8 hours ago, Tyler Miller said:

As for the second point.  I stand by it.  When someone asks for a source for a product and three people say they have that product, that’s dangerously close to doing business, not talking business.

I agree with Tyler on this pont. I understand that the comments about pricing and crowdfunding were just jokes. However, a moderator should have responded with a friendly reminder of the forum rules, rather than participating in he jokes (sorry, John). It is not a sustainable policy to say "it's ok to break forum rules as long as you're joking." Overall we give everyone a whole lot of freedom and welcome everyone's participation. It's not too much to ask folks to observe a handful of rules. 

[neilestrick]

10 hours ago, Tyler Miller said:

Neil, it probably should not be his job.  But I also feel it’s not a complete discussion without mention of the fact that lepidolite produces fluorine on firing.  That’s a big deal.  I’ve said I don’t think lead glaze recipes should be published, and you’ve said it was a poor ideal for me to say copper was mostly safe in glazes. Your argument was one of liability.  And to some extent you have a point, and I changed my post to reflect that point.  

@Tyler Miller I'm glad that you said something about the safety of fluorine, it needed to be said. That was not the problem, and I never the questioned the accuracy of your statement to that point. I just don't think you should have blamed John for not saying it already. Every material we discuss here has a danger. Is it the job of the moderator to put a disclaimer with every post about every material?

[dhPotter]

Some people are reading between the lines WAY TOO MUCH.

John merely  did a calculation. He did not put a for sale sign up. Not one person offered to sell anything. 

Picking out "business" in this thread is like picking out "business" from the throwing rib thread. Everyone has a MudTools rib. But not one person offered it up for sale.

IMHO