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How Much Does A Refractory Castable Shrink On First Firing?


jrgpots

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The sidewalls of my kiln project are built. The outside of the wall is 4" of hard brick and the inner liner is 4.5" of k26 IFB. The chamber is 30.5" wide x 25" deep x 24" high.

 

I had planned on making the arch as a monolith from a castable. But I worry that the castable will shrink too much during firing and collapse.

 

So here are my questions....

 

1. What is the percent shrinkage?

 

2. Would it be better to cast the arch in sections, like large bricks, fire the sections in another kiln, then assemble thems?

 

3. Or anybody know where I can get a good price on #1 arch bricks?

 

Jed

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Castable is really expensive to do anything large with it. I would think it would be cheaper to buy bricks. You'll still need something on top of the castable to provide additional insulation.

 

I don't think it would shrink so much that it would be a problem. You should be able to find the shrinkage rate of the castable you plan to use in the technical specs.

 

Castable is a great way to do the key brick in a brick arch if you don't want to cut the key bricks. I've done that a few times, and the shrinkage is not a problem. The arch can be built with straight bricks as long as you use mortar (fireclay and sand).

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I sent you PM  on making your own arch bricks from k26-

you can pick up the cheap china made ones online .

or buy the good ones below

 

My favorite supplier is Hi-temp-they are on ebay and sell them by the case-they have a great fedex trucking deal so freight is reasonable 

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Guest JBaymore

If you are using a commercial grade castable, they specify it so you can get that #.  In all cases commercial ones shrink very little from the mold size.

 

A home-made castable... it all depends on how you make it (ingredients proportions).  Test a sample.

 

Casting full arches is tricky.  There are some tried and true aspects that you need to follow.  If you have never done it....... try to get with someone who has and learn how to fabricate it well.

 

Fired in place large casts are NEVER fully fired thru.  The hot face is fired.  The cold face isn't.  This sets up micro stress fractures parallel to the hot face.  This results in early spalling when compared to previously fired products.  The best way to use castable is to cast it, fire it to maturity ion another kiln, and then place it.  With large casts... obviously not a possibility for most folks.

 

best,

 

......................john

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Another option is that flat roof I described awhile back from compressed folded fiber held together with stainless threaded rods. My salt kiln roof has this. The roof is about 10 inches thick and it can be flipped if needed later.

You could look this post up in the search function on my salt kiln.I have meant to write a piece own this but life got in the way.I have another deal I'm writing about now so this is on the back burner.

That roof is easy to make and costs are low.You fold the fiber-in a U-shape. Buy the highest temp you can find for this-which is 2,600 from that hi-temp place I mentions on e-bay.

You make a jig from plywood to make this roof.-look up that old post.

You have to order and cut and tread the 5/8 to 3/4 inch rods which means metal fab work but it no big deal if you are handy.

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You have to order and cut and tread the 5/8 to 3/4 inch rods which means metal fab work but it no big deal if you are handy.

 

Just buy 3/4" all-thread and cut it with a hack saw.

 

The down side of this type of roof is working with fiber. It's not the safest stuff to work with, and every time the door of the kiln brushes up against it you'll release fibers that can be inhaled.

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I used stainless rod and we sprayed the roof with ITC  but a light coat of rigidizer will stick the fibers so they are not free for and do the same thing for cheap.

I'm a brick man myself and we sod not fire the salt kiln very often.

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Kiln construction oopsies,

 

Long story short, custom built kiln for us, fellow building them had bought out the company from someone else. New fellow decided to change a few things, he used steel redi-rod and 1/8 rod (not stainless) through the bricks as structural support. (this info was not given to us prior to buying the kiln) Bricks started cracking and being pushed inwards, we began taking it apart to see what was going on, every brick fell apart in pieces as we dismantled it. Found the redi-rod in the door bricks,1/8 rod in the sides and back (front loader kiln). He hadn’t used the rods in the floor so that was okay, we replaced every brick in sides, back and door.

 

The redi-rod where not corroded is 9mm, expanded and cracked bits are about 15 mm.

 

By the time we found the problem the fellow went out of business, go figure. Still irritates me. (slight understatement) 

post-747-0-36719600-1484181205_thumb.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wouldn't a brick arch be cheaper and more durable than the castable ?

 

Yes. Stronger, lighter and more durable, likely cheaper than commercially purchased castable. All the joints in bricks allow for movement and stress release. Arches seem complicated to folks who have never built one, though, when in fact they are wonderfully simple and incredibly strong. That's how we ended up with the Minnesota Flat Top. But I don't see a lot of flat roofs that are still around from Roman times.

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Guest JBaymore

The Minnesota Flat Top roof is actually harder to do "right" than to build an arch of the same span and support it well.

 

best,

 

..............john

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