Gas Vs Electric Firing Costs

[Mark C.]

There has been a lot of chatter about electric firing lately and its low cost.

I’m curious as to a true cost analyst

I just got my last month’s gas bill and went to work with my kiln logs

I have stated that I could not do what I do now in gas kilns with electric kilns

Lets see if that is true-

 

I live in Nor –Cal where electric cost are high I have a TOU meter (time of use) and my last bill is .21 cents per Kilowatt and that’s at 75% off peak hours of use.I fire a bisque now and then off hours at this rate

What are your Kilowatt charges???

 

My gas bill is 614$ and fired my 35 cubic foot kiln 4 bisque and 4 glazes fires as well as my 12 cubic foot gas kiln I fired 5 glaze fires only so that was a total of 200 cubic feet of glaze /bisque fire pots in total for the $614total

For a cost of $3.07 per cubic foot of finished glaze ware that included bisqueing.

It would be nice for one of you cone 6 electric potters to post your firing cost of bisque and glaze per cubic foot for a comparison on electric to Gas firing costs.

What’s it cost per cubic foot in your electric for bisque and glaze to get a cubic foot of wares out??? Is less than 3.07 or more???

Nerd since you do tile this may not work for you as tile setters take up so much space.

This will be a complex math problem as you will need to keep track of your  electric meter unless yours is a studio meter only like my gas meter is for me.

I would like to know the cost of electric  fired pots per finished cubic foot of pots for you.

In business you need to know your costs so many may already know this figure??

Mark

[Marcia Selsor]

Mark,

That is a good description of your expenses. I know electricity is really expensive in CA.When I was at my studio in Montana 10 years ago, KW was $0.14 and less for TOU. I always fired overnight and would get up and drive 2 miles to the studio to check it to make sure it shut off. The average for my med. oval for a ^6 firing was about $14.75/12 cu ft = $0.81 depending on density. I also fire tiles and I think the tile setters are actually less expensive than shelves because the can fire 16 tiles or more. I have them for 4" and 6" tiles. I am bringing my big oval to Montana. Too expensive to replace. I'll have to check with the electric co. for TOU. Thanks for all that info.

Trying to relax as the turkey cooks.

Marcia

[Mark C.]

No turkey for us today its fresh Dungeness crab I caught a few days ago at sea-Turkey will be Tomorrow

My last glaze fire is today before my biggest show of the year In AZ next weekend. The pots firing are for my own home show starting on the 9th when I get back.

I'm curious on the cost of cone 6 electric cubic foot costs-You will need to add the bisque fire into the costs per cubic foot to get the finished ware cost.

I did not even mention that my gas kiln will fire for decades without any maintenance costs or very little . I went for 35 years before new burners at 54 fires a year(bisque and glazes)

I'm just trying to see what the energy costs are as I know the maintenance costs are higher for electrics.

[Guest]

I haven't worked out my costs (I'm guessing around $1.20US for an 8hr firing in a 3cf kiln) but at 6.5¢ per kw compared installing gas tanks and trucking in gas, electric has to be less expensive.

 

This might help to figure electrical costs

Electricity Calculator

 

 

 

 

[neilestrick]

I estimate my firing costs to be about $7.50 per cubic foot to get it through bisque and glaze in my 22 cubic foot electric kiln. Electricity cost for me is about $0.17/KwH. Elements costs in my big kiln are a big expense, though- 9 elements at $81 per piece adds up. Technically my cost is lower since I get my elements at wholesale prices, but I figured this at retail price. In a typical 10 cubic foot round kiln the cost would be about the same as your gas firing costs simply because the elements are cheaper.

 

Around here gas is expensive. When I got rid of my natural gas kiln 8 years ago, each firing cost me about $70, which came out to almost $5 per cubic foot. Now its' a lot higher. Propane costs are outrageous, like $250 per firing or more.

 

So yes, my big kiln is expensive to fire because of maintenance costs. However, if you figure in my time it's way cheaper. I don't have to tend to it. I don't have to be on site during the firing to make adjustments, so I can go out and repair kilns or give workshops or make sales calls or run errands for the shop even when it's firing. I can go home and spend time with my family when it's firing. My students can be in the studio while it's firing since it's quieter and less stinky. I have several different sizes of kilns so I can do small loads when needed. I can run tests in my baby kiln instead of waiting to fill the big kiln. The convenience and simplicity of electric kilns is priceless.

[MatthewV]

Lets see:

The cost of electricity is about $0.23/KWH.

 

I have fired the kiln about 70 times this year. 40 glaze firings and 30 bisque. It is an 8 cu ft ConeArt.

My electric bills include the studio lights and such. I have previously estimated this cost to be $40/month which includes the monthly membership fees.

 

I have spent $1360 on studio electric this year. So about $900 to fire the kiln.

 

Or about $2.81/cu ft of glazed electric costs.

This is consistent with my <$15/firing estimation. And I do long candles and ramp slowly!

 

--

 

As Neil mentioned, the cost of elements and thermocouples is non-trivial. I haven't had that expense yet

[Mark C.]

As to convince my kilns are at home-I light my gas kiln at 6 am this am went back out at 9 am and then at 10 am and put kiln in reduction at 1800 on pyro. Checked it again at noon for an oxygen meter reading and and will check it about every hour-I'm lightly doing studio stuff and packing for a show today so I'm around the kiln-fire will take about 11-12 hours. Should be off by 6 pm.Maybe check it 6 times altogether as it natural draft. Two day cool and 35 cubic foot of ware done. Bisque fires are less checking.On the other hand my skutt 10 cubic foot is checked about 3 times as it turns off on its own with a fire right control and back up timer-I close the lid after 600 degrees for 10 cubic foot on bisque wares. Only use it when I have overflow.

Propane costs way are way to high but thats a non issue for me.I'm on Natural Gas piped in from the utility .

It sounds Neil like my 3.07 cost is less than 1/2 your cost and your electric rates are about 1/3 less than mine at my lowest TOU rate(not all the time) and thats not counting maintenance like elements-relays etc.

The last thing is it would take me 3.5 electric loads to get my 35 cubic feet of wares in a 10 cubic footer electric-so thats 3xplus loading and unloading  and firing time as well.

Thanks for the info Its about what I thought.I'd go broke in about 6 months and my back hurts thinking about it.

This example was only for my last month only of production time so times this say by 9 more months .I just cannot pencil this out to make any sort of sense at least  for me.  Firing 10 tons a year thru and electric kiln just is not cost effective for me.

Maybe in a teaching situation or owning and art center yes but as a full timer in production on my scale its out.

Thanks for the input.

Now if I had my own power plant say a pelton wheel on a river  with lots of head drop (like Niagara Falls) for constant power and a huge front loader electric maybe. 

[neilestrick]

Even at the high end of firing costs, firing is cheap. A cubic foot would hold a dozen mugs with a retail price (for me) of $28 each. That's $336. That means an additional 33 cents cost per mug for me versus you. For oil bottles I could fit 18 in a cubic foot with a retail price of $36 each or $648. That means a 22 cent per piece difference between your gas and my electric. For sponge holders I could fit 27 in a cubic foot, so 15 cents per piece difference on a $17 pot. I get what you're saying, but I think the actual cost per piece is negligible and could easily be made up by raising prices ever-so-slightly. I'm a firm believer that making pots is cheap. High firing costs are still cheap. Expensive clay is still cheap. Expensive glaze materials are still cheap. When you break it down to the cost per pot, everything is cheap except your time.

I move at least 10,000 pounds a year through my kilns, and loading and firing the kilns really doesn't eat up much of my time.

 

I think it's clear that different systems work for different people. I was making less money with the gas kiln due to the time restraints in firing it. For you having a home studio it works great. The other issue is that most people can't have a gas kiln at their home. They have to fire electric, so they figure out how to fit that into a profitable system for them. I know plenty of full time potters who fire in electric kilns, even small electric kilns. it just depends on your working style. If you had started with electric kilns, then that system would be great for you and you'd think gas wasn't worth it.

 

HERE's what you need!

[ayjay]

My kiln is only 2.7 cu.ft.

 

In round figures it uses 25 kwh for a bisque fire and 35 kwh for a glaze fire - more with a slow cool down: my electrickery is 12p per kw.

 

That makes it  £3.00 for a bisque load and no more than £5.00 for a glaze fire, usually less.

 

Money is in Pounds Sterling - UK.

 

 

[Mark C.]

Since I average 54 loads a year in a 10 cubic electric that would be 189 loads not even counting my near 30 loads in my 12 cubic gas kiln .

The time alone spent loading a firing would cut into production.

There is a reason all the full time potters I know out west here have gas Car kilns. The smallest I know is a 27 cubic.

The top loader electric would be the only way in new Zealand they call them top hats (most are gas there as well)

My second kiln was an electric I bought right after I built a gas kiln-for lusters in the early 70's.

You are right about all things clay they are cheap and I keep it that way.I think if I started and stayed with electrics my body would be more wore out at this point. Not that its great anyway. 

I bought my property just for GAS it was at the top of the list on whats needed and that was in 1973-priorites they say. The rest is history.

[Guest]

 

HERE's what you need!

 

What does a kiln like that run?

[Marcia Selsor]

when I was talking to the guys at the energy company in red Lodge, they winced at hearing I had a 90 amp electric kiln and suggested I go with gas. I'd love to.I have designed and built gas kilns sine I was in undergraduate school 50 years ago. I have some beautiful ^6 reduction glazes I would gladly return to using. I guess I'll have to see how things play out in Montana. The gas line may be close to the kiln shed too.I'd also love to do salt. I have been carrying around silicon carbide shelves for a long time waiting to build another soda kiln.

Marcia

[Mark C.]

My salt kiln loves gas.I have a 100 feet line of 2 inch pipe to salt in side field.  Salt and electrics do not mix well -maybe a fire or two at best.

If its there I say use it.Especially if the utility is offering.I like the dry english high alumina shelves for the salt. 12x 24 x 1 inch thick. I used to use them in the car kiln so I have about 40 of them left over for salt use. They do not gobber up like say a silicone shave does. They hold up well to salt.

[Marcia Selsor]

I don't think I am up to lifting 12 x 24 x 1 inch shelves. That's the problem with getting older.

Seriously considering going back to gas if it is available. We didn't have that option down here. Only propane and

I didn't like that in hurricane -ville.

Marcia

[neilestrick]

 

 

HERE's what you need!

 

What does a kiln like that run?

 

 

No clue. Custom order. 25 cubic feet runs $9500, so if you math it out it could be $35,000. That only gets you 50 cubic feet of commercial gas kiln.

[glazenerd]

Rural Co-op electric here: 11¢ per kilowatt for first 2000, and .08¢ thereafter.

 

AS Mark pointed out, I am heating up a boat load of thermal mass: over and above the tile. However, I have programmed my Orton 2.0 controllers with a 0.11¢ per kilowatt cost. A full load of bisq is $2.87 and a full load of crystalline is $8.50 typically. However, I have 3 hours of extended holds involved as well. I do not recall ever firing a load of straight cone 6 in my 6.5CF. That puts me at $11.37 for total production firing: less peak holds =??? $10 maybe??? I have not fired anything but tile in that one, but in the near future that will happen.

 

Using Neils math above A cubic foot would hold a dozen mugs  My 6.5 x 12 = 78 mugs  $10 divided by 78 = 0.13¢ a mug finished,

Nerd

[Marcia Selsor]

Just checking my new energy company and their maps of comparisons across the US. This is just domestic use, but CA, Mass., NY are the highest.Hawaii is highest.

 

Electric

http://www.northwesternenergy.com/UserApps/RateCompare/201601ResElectricRateMap.pdf

GAS

http://www.northwesternenergy.com/UserApps/RateCompare/201601ResNatGasRateMaps.pdf

[Joseph Fireborn]

Man the power in Hawaii whooo wee. Don't be a potter there. Gas even worse.

[Marcia Selsor]

Wow. Didn't notice Hawaii on my small screen. That is really high.I edited my previous post.

 

Marcia

[Mark C.]

I have done some ceramic volunteering in Hawaii and the costs are really high. I converted a gas salt kiln and taught them to fire it.

Also taught some and did some demos on better kiln packing of bisque and glaze wares.

Most potters waste space like crazy I have found.

Nerd your power is almost FREE

[Guest]

 

 

 

HERE's what you need!

 

What does a kiln like that run?

 

 

No clue. Custom order. 25 cubic feet runs $9500, so if you math it out it could be $35,000. That only gets you 50 cubic feet of commercial gas kiln.

 

 

Nice chuck of change, I don't think I'll have enough production for a few more decades

[fergusonjeff]

Just for comparison, here are my numbers:

My electricity is cheap (mid Missouri) at around $0.095/KWH.  So a typical cone 6 glaze firing of a 10 cubic foot electric kiln runs about $10.00.  Bisque is about $7.50, but that accounts for at least 2 glaze loads.  So, on average, my final cost is about $1.40/cubic foot.  I average about $125 of sale price per cubic foot of glaze firing (I like making big bowls but the don't use kiln space nearly as efficiently as small items like mugs).  So roughly 1% of my sale cost goes to firing electricity.  To be fair though, that should probably be about doubled to account for element replacements.  So, in the end I spend about 2% of sale price on firing. 

I live off the gas grid, so propane is my only option.  Way too expensive. 

I am building a 20 cubic foot wood-fired kiln that will use about a cord of wood per firing.  I can get plentiful oak wine barrel scrap for under $40/cord.  Adding in about $10 per firing for candling with propane and about $10 in electric bisque costs, it will run about $3 per cubic foot to fire.  Still relatively cheap in the big picture. 

With the wood kiln I also get to play with fire for a whole day.  For a pyromaniac this is a lot more fun that electric.  Not sure how to factor this into the price.

[Chilly]

  For a pyromaniac this is a lot more fun that electric.  Not sure how to factor this into the price.

 

Double it.