akilpots Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 I’ve had my l&l easy fire for about a year, bought it new, and have done roughly 60 firings in it. The vast majority of those cone 6 glaze firings. Recently they are taking more time to reach temp and I’m not sure if it’s the elements failing or the thermocouple or both? a cone 6 medium fire takes over 14 hours at this point and when I look at the cone pack cone 6 is well melted and cone 7 pretty bent but not touching the shelf. I’m thinking about just ordering new elements and thermocouples but also wondering if the type s ones are worth the money. How much longer do they last compared to type k? How many glaze firing should I reasonably get from a new set of elements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 At 60 firings it shouldn't need elements yet, however it's possible if most of those were cone 6/7, and if you're doing any holds or slow cooling that can increase the rate of wear. Is the kiln vented? I would measure the element resistance and inspect the thermocouples for wear. Type S are not needed for cone 6 work, and are terribly expensive. If you were firing to cone 10 they would be good to have, but at cone 6 the type K are accurate enough and have a decent lifespan. akilpots 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akilpots Posted June 11 Author Report Share Posted June 11 i'd wager a little more than half of the glaze firings have been with a slow cool and a hold. so maybe like 25-30 firings. the kiln is vented and the vent has been on for all firings. i've attached an image of the top thermocouple not sure what the bottom one looks like right now i only thought of taking this after i had the kiln loaded today. i'm running a cone 6 fast fire right now and it's going on 8hrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akilpots Posted June 11 Author Report Share Posted June 11 i will measure the element resistance tomorrow once everything is cooled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulk Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 Is the kiln fitted with the Quad elements? The bit of element in the pic looks really good. Any chance one of the elements isn't heating well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akilpots Posted June 11 Author Report Share Posted June 11 it does have the quad elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 (edited) 5 hours ago, akilpots said: glaze firings have been with a slow cool and a hold Just curious, what was your schedule? Drop and hold or hold at peak? Definitely measure resistance so you know for sure how much things are worn. New thermocouples always great but they generally last longer than elements and tend to work or not by design. I am curious since you have run exhaust through full glaze firing, how hot is the exhaust duct connected to the kiln at top temperature? Scalding hot - don’t touch it, or mildly hot to the touch, if you know. Edited June 11 by Bill Kielb akilpots 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 Just to add some more possibilities: You might have a failing relay, therefore one section of the kiln isn’t heating correctly, therefore it takes much longer to finish the firing. Have your recent kiln loads been different, ie more dense? A kiln load with 8 shelves will take much more energy to fire than a kiln load with 4 shelves. I usually get about 130 firings from a set of elements and TCs, but only half of them are cone 6 glaze firings. The other half are cone 04 bisque. So 60-ish glaze firings is a reasonable life span, especially if you are doing slow cools and holds. akilpots 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Longtin Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 Your elements look to be in great shape but your thermocouple is fried. I'd say start there. akilpots, Babs, Mark C. and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 Quad elements should last you 200+ firings. It's possible that one fried out for some reason, though. You'll find that when you test the resistance. Do you have a Genesis controller? If so, download the firings logs and see if one section is lagging behind the others and causing the slowdown. akilpots 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 Thermocuple looks toasted to me Babs, akilpots and Kelly in AK 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akilpots Posted June 11 Author Report Share Posted June 11 5 hours ago, Bill Kielb said: Just curious, what was your schedule? Drop and hold or hold at peak? Definitely measure resistance so you know for sure how much things are worn. New thermocouples always great but they generally last longer than elements and tend to work or not by design. I am curious since you have run exhaust through full glaze firing, how hot is the exhaust duct connected to the kiln at top temperature? Scalding hot - don’t touch it, or mildly hot to the touch, if you know. a drop and hold for 10min. the exhaust duct gets mildly hot to the touch. Bill Kielb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akilpots Posted June 11 Author Report Share Posted June 11 3 hours ago, GEP said: Just to add some more possibilities: You might have a failing relay, therefore one section of the kiln isn’t heating correctly, therefore it takes much longer to finish the firing. Have your recent kiln loads been different, ie more dense? A kiln load with 8 shelves will take much more energy to fire than a kiln load with 4 shelves. I usually get about 130 firings from a set of elements and TCs, but only half of them are cone 6 glaze firings. The other half are cone 04 bisque. So 60-ish glaze firings is a reasonable life span, especially if you are doing slow cools and holds. when i first got the kiln it had a bad relay that was stuck on but l&l swapped it for a new one and things have been going great since. the kiln loads have been pretty consistent in how densely they are packed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akilpots Posted June 11 Author Report Share Posted June 11 43 minutes ago, neilestrick said: Quad elements should last you 200+ firings. It's possible that one fried out for some reason, though. You'll find that when you test the resistance. Do you have a Genesis controller? If so, download the firings logs and see if one section is lagging behind the others and causing the slowdown. it does have the genesis controller and i'll try to grab the logs later...though i find that process to be a little annoying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akilpots Posted June 12 Author Report Share Posted June 12 15 hours ago, neilestrick said: Quad elements should last you 200+ firings. It's possible that one fried out for some reason, though. You'll find that when you test the resistance. Do you have a Genesis controller? If so, download the firings logs and see if one section is lagging behind the others and causing the slowdown. it looks like this is definitely the case. zone 2 lagged the entire firing and the gap only increased as it reached temp. measuring the resistance when it had cooled only confirmed things... elements in zone 1 = 12.6 omhs elements in zone 2 = 25.9 omhs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 2 hours ago, akilpots said: it looks like this is definitely the case. zone 2 lagged the entire firing and the gap only increased as it reached temp. measuring the resistance when it had cooled only confirmed things... elements in zone 1 = 12.6 omhs elements in zone 2 = 25.9 omhs Looks like you've got a dead element. Maybe some glaze splatter got on it? Roberta12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akilpots Posted June 12 Author Report Share Posted June 12 2 hours ago, neilestrick said: Looks like you've got a dead element. Maybe some glaze splatter got on it? yeah definitely is a dead element. had to squeak another bisc firing in and i opened it up to see and the 3rd element isnt getting red at all. got some new ones on the way from l&l though. thanks for all your help. Hulk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Looks like that thermocouple is spalling pretty badly, could damage glaze on some pots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Longtin Posted June 17 Report Share Posted June 17 When a kiln element looks rusty, the rings are close together, and the rings are leaning, you have an old element that needs replacement. (If the kiln is firing slowly.) If it's a relatively new element, relatively clean element, sometimes you can make this repair by gently pulling the element ends to lengthen them. Then weave the two ends of the element together. (Such that the two ends are in close contact with each other.) I did this on my Skutt 231 and the repair held for several years. While not ideal this repair did work when "supply chain issues" slowed down delivery of kiln parts. If the element has broken due to a small chunk of glaze landing on it, it's advisable to remove the discolored portion of the soft brick so it won't fuse to the new element and cause another break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted June 17 Report Share Posted June 17 I don't think the tc looks that bad for a closeup photo. If you do try and repair an element that has been fired I would strongly suggest heating it up with a torch until it is glowing hot then weaving the two end together as they tend to snap if just worked on when cold. (power off to the kiln obviously) Not ideal but worth a go if you can't wait for a new element and need to run a bisque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.