Shaping large pug mill logs for throwing

[kswan]

I know many of you use pug mills, and I finally got one for myself to help ease strain on my wrists and forearms from wedging clay. I'm already feeling the benefit of tossing my hand building scraps and throwing slop into it right away, and not feeling the anxiety of seeing huge masses of clay needing to be reclaimed. 

Now I am trying to figure out how to shape a 4-5 pound or larger pug mill log into the mound needed for wheel throwing. I really don't want to wedge it if possible. I'm trying out rounding the bottom and coning down from the top, but it seems like maybe there's an easier way. Suggestions?

Thanks,

Kathy

[Magnolia Mud Research]

38 minutes ago, kswan said:

Now I am trying to figure out how to shape a 4-5 pound or larger pug mill log into the mound needed for wheel throwing. I really don't want to wedge it if possible. I'm trying out rounding the bottom and coning down from the top, but it seems like maybe there's an easier way. Suggestions?

I don't wedge!;  I drop!.  
Take you log and hold it up and drop in strait down. then pick up and drop again to make the log into a block, then drop the block so that it becomes comes a 8 sided block.   now use that to start on the wheel.   I work on a table and lift the clay as high as my arms will go and drop the clay on to the table.   Some times I slam the log on to the table if the clay doesn't wake up and move like it should.    If the clay sticks to the wooden table, the clay is too wet (if it bounces, it ain't wet enough). 
You are shaping the clay not wedging it.  

LT
 

[Min]

Another way to do it would be to weight out the amount of the pug you need then cut it in half so instead of an approx 8 - 10" pug you have two 4 - 5" lengths. Smack or thump those into roughly a roundish shape with flat bottoms. Center the first one on the wheel then flatten off the top then slap the second one on top of the first (without trapping air between). 

VanGilder has a video showing a useful tool for cutting clay into equal weights. It's at 3.37 of the video below. I totally agree with him on throwing the pugs on the side not in a soup can orientation. Some claybodies might be okay with the soup can orientation but with others the auger spirals will cause cracking issues.

 

[Mark C.]

I slap 4 logs together and drop them onto my wedging table and shape them into a standard 25# pug then cut them into usual amounts to throw

[kswan]

@Min Where would the cracking show up if clay were used in the soup can orientation?  Mostly S cracks at the bottom? I compress the bejeebus out of my clay so I haven't had cracks in a long time, but shouldn't push it, I suppose. I've made a dozen so far using the pugmill that have gone through glaze firing without cracks and were oriented soup-can style. Van Gilder's clay cutting tool is neat, I've only seen something like that for making slabs. 

[Min]

1 hour ago, kswan said:

@Min Where would the cracking show up if clay were used in the soup can orientation?  Mostly S cracks at the bottom? 

Yup. 

It might not be a problem for you but what I did when I bought my mixer/pugger is cut off a dozen or so discs right from the pugger and dried them out. Some cracked, some didn't. Could try some slices cut from the length of the pug to compare the two methods. (I use a smooth white ^6 clay that is a bit fussy) Auger leaves it's mark in the clay for small puggers just as it does for large ones. 

I posted this image in another thread the other day. This clay has sat for about a year, nice and soft, never frozen, auger marks are super clear.

 

[Pres]

I haven't had pug mill at home, but do remember the Walker at the HS. I would always be amazed at the clay that came out of the machine.  Throw in some scraps from the hanbuilders, some slop from the throwers, and run through twice to have great clay. I never noticed any auger marks in the clay no matter which way I cut it. As long as it didn't dog ear on me it was good to go. I think that the side delivery at the end of the auger run had something to do with the compressed body and the lack of auger spirals. It was also easy to cut a cutting frame for 3 lb throwing pieces no matter what angle.

best,

Pres

[GEP]

I take a long pug (10 or 12 inches long), lay it on its side. Slap my hands onto both ends, like I’m clapping my hands together but the pug gets in the way. Pick up the pug, turn it towards me a little, smack it down lightly on the table. Then keep repeating. Clap, pick it up, turn it a little, smack it down. Within 15 to 30 seconds, the proportions have changed to a wheel-ready shape. 

Congrats on the pug mill! 

[oldlady]

you might try making something you commonly make using what you think is the right amount of clay.   cut a piece of a fresh pug and touch a sharpie to the place the pug lands when you run the machine.  my bailey has a stainless "table" that slides as the weight of the pug pushes it away. i have lines on it.  i find that about 4 inches is just right for a soup bowl, the thing i throw often.  the diameter of mine is different from yours so maybe only 3 inches is what you want.

weigh that piece.  make the item and judge whether it is too little or too much.   the point is to avoid weighing every time by  learning  what length contains the amount you are aiming for and mark the lines so you can cut the same size piece each time.  if you are confused, just think that lines equal weight and equal lengths give  equal weights.

to save my hands, i use a "whammer dammer", a piece of wood that acts like a square baseball bat.  put the clay on the wheel and wham it down onto the wheelhead or batt.   use slow speed and wham it all the way around shaping it as you go.  i use Mea's hockey puck shape, never a mound with a slope.  why make a shape you have to change to throw anything?

Edited August 25, 2022 by oldlady

[Kelly in AK]

The “Whammer Dammer!” My partner introduced me to this tool a few months ago via a David MacDonald (Syracuse, N.Y.) video. Clay mallet. Changed my world. I had seen them over the years but never tried one. Hand and wrist saver for sure. Centering aid, especially for big pieces. I use mine mostly to beat out slabs then finish them with rolling pin. It’s normally covered with a sock, but I’m showing off the tool.   

[kswan]

@Kelly in AK What is the handle made of?

I've used one of those in a class on making large platters. It was really helpful in getting the clay spread out from a mound.

[oldlady]

it is all one piece of wood.  looks like someone burned the handle, do not know why.  only the maker knows.   mine is even simpler, i cut it myself from a 4x4 and the handle remains a square.

Edited August 25, 2022 by oldlady

[Kelly in AK]

The handle is bone I found and the mallet bit is spruce from my firewood pile, they both have grain so look like one piece. Here’s another that’s all wood, cut from a 4 x 4. These really do work well for shaping and centering big pieces of clay, do it just like Oldlady described. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Kelly in AK
Clarity

[Pres]

And here I have been using my hands and fist to center 20# pieces of clay on the wheel! Especially when opening up for large jar pieces. . .pounding the fist into the center of the centered clay while the wheel is turning slowly is almost therapeutic. Guess I'll have to carve one of these out.

 

best,

Pres

[kswan]

Yeah, whacking clay with one of those feels great! I think I was only using about 10-12 pounds of clay, and the monstrosity I made never even reached the bisque stage. You get a rhythm going and it can be very meditative and therapeutic as well.

I've got some spare pieces of 4x4 that I will see if my woodworking neighbor can help me shape. Fun project for after my fall shows! Another thing on my wish list to make is a mushroom shaped piece for shaping domes. I know I can buy one, but I'll see what I can make first. 

[Magnolia Mud Research]

2 hours ago, kswan said:

Another thing on my wish list to make is a mushroom shaped piece for shaping domes. I know I can buy one, but I'll see what I can make first. 

golf balls, base balls, basket balls, foot balls, dried balls of clay, ... these are standard tools for domes and hollows. 
LT