New Kiln - Manual vs Automatic?

[Tumbleweed Pottery]

Hi all,

I've been using my 50 year old Cress for these past 6 months, and I'm ready to upgrade to a larger size. Not only that, but my kiln takes forever to fire to cone 6 (12 hours usually). It's manual, but I have been following a modest firing schedule (2 hours at 20, 3 hours at 50, 3 hours at 80, and then 100 the rest of the way). No one has ever told me how fast I should turn the kiln up, and I don't have a pyrometer installed, so a lot of the manual firing schedules I find online mean nothing to me. I do use witness cones, and I know I'm reaching true cone 6, but I just don't know how fast I should turn it up.

I am looking at the ole girl and just thinking that she'd be better off as a bisque kiln. I don't want to trouble with replacing the elements, 

Moving on, no matter what, I need more space in my kiln. Now I'm at a crossroads moment where I need to decide what to do about my next kiln. I see the virtue in a kiln sitter now, vs a digital model. Though I can't do a hold, I know I won't ever have to replace a thermocouple. I use cone packs every time, every shelf, so I will be able to monitor my elements' effectiveness.

I don't really mind having to stay nearby the kiln to turn it up. I feel better that way. I know the bells and whistles of an app on your phone to monitor firing is nice for some, but is there anything wrong in me choosing to buy a brand new kiln that's not a digital control kiln? It would save me at least $1,000, and while I do view this as an investment, I am not a full-time potter, so I can't justify spending over $3,500 for a new kiln.

(and yes, I want it to be brand new for so many reasons-- but mostly it's my poor husband who is the one who'll be installing the thing, repairing it, so I want to get as much mileage out of the thing before it needs repairs. Also if it's brand new, we will have it delivered freight. Otherwise we will have to drive 3-5 hours to pick up any kiln I can find online, which we've done before, and was not an enjoyable experience for him either.)

Any insight, thoughts, or experiences are appreciated!

[neilestrick]

I just don't see any reason to buy a manual kiln in 2020. Some kiln companies don't even make manual kilns any more. The reason all this technology has made its way into kilns is because it gives us a lot more control and is safer. With a digital controller you can specify exactly how fast you want to fire, you can hold temperature, you can fire down, you can make slight changes to firing temps, you can monitor firings from your phone in case you want to leave the house for a while when the kiln is on, and they're much easier and safer to work on when doing maintenance and repairs. The chances of seriously over-firing in a digital kiln are also much lower, as several unlikely things must occur for that to happen. I've seen it happen in manual kilns many times, though.

Hold times, cooling schedules, etc, can help fix problems with glazes, or improve how they look.

A new kiln should last you 30 years as a hobbyist, so get the best kiln you can. If that means saving up for a few more months, then so be it. You can still put cones on the shelves to monitor the firings. Thermocouples won't cost you any more than cones, and are easy to replace- you only need a screwdriver and less than 5 minutes.

[Hulk]

Might save a bit in electric cost by ramping up faster - once dry, full on?

Digitally controlled likely worth more at resale.

[Mark C.]

If you are glaze firing get a digital computer controlled kiln.Really thats the best advice I have-just as Neil said

If you are just (and only bisquing) bisquing as I do a manual is fine. I have a skutt 1227 manual kiln. I have a older Fire right controller that turns the kiln up on my old manual kiln so even thats an upgrade compared to a all manual kiln.

Neil hit all the high points in above post.

[Denice]

I decided to rewire my old Skutt instead of buying a new computerized  kiln.  I have been firing manual kilns for  45  years,  I did buy a Skutt dual pyrometer  set  10 years ago so I could do down fires and holds that a lot of Cone 6 glazes require.   Twelve hours isn't to bad for a heavily loaded kiln,  but if it is lightly loaded you need to rewire.   This last time I talked my husband into rewiring it and he did a great job.   Denice

[Tumbleweed Pottery]

1 hour ago, Denice said:

I decided to rewire my old Skutt instead of buying a new computerized  kiln.  I have been firing manual kilns for  45  years,  I did buy a Skutt dual pyrometer  set  10 years ago so I could do down fires and holds that a lot of Cone 6 glazes require.   Twelve hours isn't to bad for a heavily loaded kiln,  but if it is lightly loaded you need to rewire.   This last time I talked my husband into rewiring it and he did a great job.   Denice

It's packed as tightly as it can be, running 12 hours. I've seen others with 12 hour fire times and they say it's pretty usual for them. The lady I bought the kiln from did say the elements weren't very old.

[Tumbleweed Pottery]

9 hours ago, neilestrick said:

I just don't see any reason to buy a manual kiln in 2020. Some kiln companies don't even make manual kilns any more. The reason all this technology has made its way into kilns is because it gives us a lot more control and is safer. With a digital controller you can specify exactly how fast you want to fire, you can hold temperature, you can fire down, you can make slight changes to firing temps, you can monitor firings from your phone in case you want to leave the house for a while when the kiln is on, and they're much easier and safer to work on when doing maintenance and repairs. The chances of seriously over-firing in a digital kiln are also much lower, as several unlikely things must occur for that to happen. I've seen it happen in manual kilns many times, though.

Hold times, cooling schedules, etc, can help fix problems with glazes, or improve how they look.

A new kiln should last you 30 years as a hobbyist, so get the best kiln you can. If that means saving up for a few more months, then so be it. You can still put cones on the shelves to monitor the firings. Thermocouples won't cost you any more than cones, and are easy to replace- you only need a screwdriver and less than 5 minutes.

You bring up some very valid points!

I have a peer who has a Cress B31H she is selling for $500, with shelves. I have no idea of its condition. I will go see it soon and reassess. It's very tempting, saving $3,000 on a "new" kiln, but you're right, I want this one to last me for years. Smart thing to do is invest in the future with a brand new kiln.

I'm currently in a "temporary" position at my school (one year contract due to a teacher's longterm illness), and will have to wait to see if the position goes beyond the year, thus affording me the ability to buy a brand new kiln without much thought. It would be very silly to spend $3,500 on a hobby kiln if my full-time pay is going to dry up after June. Then again, if I'm not a full-time teacher anymore, I have no excuse not to focus on becoming a full-time potter. It's a bit of a catch 22.

I should know within a few weeks what my fate is to be. Then I can buy the kiln that's appropriate for my circumstances.

Thanks all for your input.

[Mark C.]

One last maybe is buy the new older kiln and plug it into a wall mounted computer that turns it up .I think those units run about $700 but you still end up with a manual kiln with less control than a new kiln. The new 3 zone contols are the way to go if you are glaze firing these days in an electric .

[LeeU]

1 hour ago, Tumbleweed Pottery said:

I should know within a few weeks what my fate is to be.

Well.....not to be overly philosophical or, heaven forbid, snarky---however, I feel compelled to suggest that in all probability we generally do not know  what our "fate" (being the "...presumed cause, force, principle, or divine will that predetermines events (&/or) ...the effect, consequence, outcome, or inevitable events predetermined by this cause." [dictionary]) is to be.

Now, the point of pointing that out is to suggest a reconsideration of the relative "value" or "worth" of saving some spendoolies versus having a glorious new, state-of-the-art (could even outlive you) digital kiln. I suspect most of us who use them will attest to the thrill of having one at hand. What an amazing way to infuse clay, art, craft, hobby, revenue-producing business, creative outlet (& inlet) into one's life! Does nice things with glaze, also.

Fair disclosure--I am biased. I tempted "fate" by investing in a new L&L Easy Fire when all common sense, financial short & long term realities & projections, and most friends said "bad idea-disaster will follow".  But what I was investing in was not "the future"; what I was investing in was the future of Self.  Worked out just fine.  Well, there was that dry spell when I was living off of yard sale sales, but I've been there before, so no biggie. No regrets, just sheer pleasure.

[Tumbleweed Pottery]

18 minutes ago, LeeU said:

Well.....not to be overly philosophical or, heaven forbid, snarky---however, I feel compelled to suggest that in all probability we generally do not know  what our "fate" (being the "...presumed cause, force, principle, or divine will that predetermines events (&/or) ...the effect, consequence, outcome, or inevitable events predetermined by this cause." [dictionary]) is to be.

Now, the point of pointing that out is to suggest a reconsideration of the relative "value" or "worth" of saving some spendoolies versus having a glorious new, state-of-the-art (could even outlive you) digital kiln. I suspect most of us who use them will attest to the thrill of having one at hand. What an amazing way to infuse clay, art, craft, hobby, revenue-producing business, creative outlet (& inlet) into one's life! Does nice things with glaze, also.

Fair disclosure--I am biased. I tempted "fate" by investing in a new L&L Easy Fire when all common sense, financial short & long term realities & projections, and most friends said "bad idea-disaster will follow".  But what I was investing in was not "the future"; what I was investing in was the future of Self.  Worked out just fine.  Well, there was that dry spell when I was living off of yard sale sales, but I've been there before, so no biggie. No regrets, just sheer pleasure.

Very fair points! Spendy up front, but I see the long-term benefit overall.

Now, either purchase will have to wait for another very practical reason... the snow. It falls in December, and doesn't melt until March or so up here. It would be a pain in the butt to load it through the walk-in basement before then. I know the new ones come apart pretty easily though, so that will be nice.

[oldlady]

i don't have 2 cents but my one cent offer is get a kiln that fits you.  i agree with neil and mark and suggest an L&L because even i have not damaged any of the bricks in my kiln which i still think of as new.   i got it in about 2002-3 with a digital controller.  my old kiln was new in the 1960s and i finally killed it.

you have not given your age or other health particulars so my suggestion might not fit your situation.   a decent size kiln is about 23 inches wide inside and about 27 inches deep.  and it will be on a stand to make it even taller.  if you are young and over 5 feet 5, you should have no problems loading the new kiln.   if, however, you are shorter or older or both, consider getting one that is not as tall.  i think many kilns come in sections that are 9 inches tall.  mine is in 3 sections so the 27 inches is about right.

kiln manufacturers make kilns to suit peoples needs.  since you have several months to do all the preliminary work of deciding exactly what you want, think about your own way of using it.   i even know of a kiln that has had 3 owners, each thought it was perfect for their use.  it was custom made and about 6 feet in diameter and about 20 inches tall inside.   it is now used to fire hundreds of small crosses at a time for a semi religious group who sells them as fast as they can be made.

your money, so your design and your particular needs should be met.   and yes, my kiln fires using a program built into the controller and it takes about 14 hours including a built in preheat since i single fire to cone 6.