High Bridge Pottery Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I have been glazing about 100 big (30cm/12inch) platters and it is taking too long to remove the glaze off the bases. I need some wax but any pottery wax I have bought has never worked or I have not been using it properly. Are there any other waxes I can buy that are cheap and work. I remember seeing something about painters wax. What is going to be the quickest way to wax big platters to save on time wiping glaze back? Also on another topic, the new kiln I have been firing uses natural gas and it is a pleasure to fire with. Burners are so quiet compared to propane and I am not sure how to explain but inside the kiln looks so much brighter and cleaner, it is like a summers day compared to the cloudy overcast look propane has. Has anybody else noticed this and understands why they have a different look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Joel, congrats on your gas fired pots.....they are really nice! I was introduced to the Forbes wax last year. It dries quickly, and is easy to use. Here in the states you can get it from Highwater clay. Not sure about a UK source. Do you have a foot on your platters or are they flat on the bottom? Roberta https://www.highwaterclays.com/index.cfm/category/129/waxes.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 ..........I am not sure how to explain but inside the kiln looks so much brighter and cleaner, it is like a summers day compared to the cloudy overcast look propane has. Has anybody else noticed this and understands why they have a different look? Ratio of carbon atoms to hydrogen atoms. CH4 versus C3H8. 1 to 4 versus 3 to 8. 2.7 times more carbon to the hydrogen. During the "cracking" of the fuel gas in the initial (less than nano-second) breaking up of the molecular bonds in the fuel molecule, the higher carbon content produces "luminous carbon"..... little "particles" of glowing carbon that exist for a brief instant before being oxidized into CO and then CO2. Makes a "yellower" flame when oxygen starved in reduction conditions. Industry even makes a "luminous flame burner" that takes advantage of this fact to cause better radiant heat transfer. best, .....................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Are there any other waxes I can buy that are cheap and work. I remember seeing something about painters wax. What is going to be the quickest way to wax big platters to save on time wiping glaze back? I use hot paraffin wax when waxing. Well ventilated and temp controlled. NOTHING works as well. Set up a sodden sponge on a tray of water. Brush the UNWAXED and glazed plates over this in a twisting motion. Alternatively... build an attachment to get that sponge spinning on a potters wheel and hold the plate on it. This is how industry (used) to do it FAST. Expensive commercial alternative is a belt sander like device that runs a wet sponge belt. best, .......................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I use paraffin hot wax for flat bottom forms like John in above post.This wax will resist glaze the best. I also use a very large electric pan for the melting. I get them on e-bay and have posted that link before-you will have to search for that post. For all footed forms I use the wax below with a cut damp sponge-not as fast but very fast. I also have a power sponge for removing glaze from pot bottoms http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/topic/14980-my-favorite-wax-is-going-away-at-least-from-laguna-clay-co/?hl=waxing&do=findComment&comment=111965Iuse paraffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I use hot wax in a firing pan with an addition of mineral oil to thin the coat. Also I use as John mentions , a damp foam pad and impress, swish the plate to any remove glaze. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Not sure what Joel means by his wax resist not working properly but if it’s remaining tacky I’ve had that problem. Had a gallon of Mobilizer A that had to be left overnight before it dried (I cut it with water about 1/2 and 1/2). Didn’t have the time for that and it was too expensive to toss. What did work was running a heat gun on low over the wax for a few seconds then very quickly burnishing it with a scrap of plastic film / wrap. Sounds like it would take a long time but it doesn’t, made a very good resist then. I use no resist when I can, can’t with white clay and iron rich glazes though without leaving the clay stained. For hot wax I use soy wax, does’t smell nearly so bad as paraffin when burning off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Do not let your water based waxes freeze-it does them no good -same with latex's . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugaboo Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 To remove excess glaze from bottoms I have a pieces of Berber style carpet glued to a piece of plywood. I spritz the carpet with water place the pot on it and give it a twist or two and off comes the glaze. I just rinse the carpet board and store standing up when it collects too much glaze residue. I apply my wax with a sponge, much quicker and easier than a brush and I'm too chicken to use hot wax. I am currently using Forbes wax, though I gotta say I don't care for it when doing glazes techniques on Bisque ware. I have had issues of it peeling off the glaze when I glaze a detail area with different colors them wax over them so I can glaze the rest of the piece yet another color. I'm still looking for a wax that will work better for this. I do love it for applying to greenware and then carving though. I do this for sketched effects and once the drawing has been carved, scratched, etc I then apply thinned underglaze and it flows right into the lines and is easy to wipe off the other areas. T T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 I've never had wax resist that didn't work. You brush it on, it dries, you glaze. Not sure what the problem is. There is a brand out there that stays tacky, but I'm not sure what it is. I've never used it, but it's supposed to be great for some specific decorating technique that one of my students learned at a workshop this last year. In addition to glazing, I use wax resist for etching porcelain. Works great. The only issue I have with most water-based wax resists is that they don't wash out of brushes very well. The brushes are ruined after a couple of uses. However the wax resist that Ceramic Supply and Standard sell washes out of brushes beautifully. A swish in the water bucket and it's gone. I wear out brushes, they never gum up. And it dries quickly, too. Great stuff. I don't have the time to deal with hot wax, nor do I like the safety issue with a studio full of students. For my work I have to brush on the wax to get a precise application. Dipping won't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 I use a brush for detail work only-98% is not that type of work. I go thru a case every year of parrifin and about a 1/2 to 1 gallon of ceramula moboilizer wax. I dip the pots with flat bottoms and hand wax the footed forms My guess on that wax that does not set is it froze or had to much water added-but its just a guess.My shop has never froze in this climate. cold yes but always above 32 degrees and is well insulated.With the heater pilot on it keeps a steady temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 ..........I am not sure how to explain but inside the kiln looks so much brighter and cleaner, it is like a summers day compared to the cloudy overcast look propane has. Has anybody else noticed this and understands why they have a different look? Ratio of carbon atoms to hydrogen atoms. CH4 versus C3H8. 1 to 4 versus 3 to 8. 2.7 times more carbon to the hydrogen. During the "cracking" of the fuel gas in the initial (less than nano-second) breaking up of the molecular bonds in the fuel molecule, the higher carbon content produces "luminous carbon"..... little "particles" of glowing carbon that exist for a brief instant before being oxidized into CO and then CO2. Makes a "yellower" flame when oxygen starved in reduction conditions. Industry even makes a "luminous flame burner" that takes advantage of this fact to cause better radiant heat transfer. best, .....................john I tried Google Translate on the above text from John, but still didn't understand it - lol. I hope it made sense for Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 I tried Google Translate on the above text from John, but still didn't understand it - lol. I hope it made sense for Joel More glowing carbon particles. best, ................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted February 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 I will have to try out hot wax if you are both recommending it Good tip with the mineral oil too, I will be using that. It's not that the waxes don't work but they don't work with me. I open the pot of stinky wax and dab a bit on a pot, think it is terrible and go back to sponging. Chilly I had to take a few days to ponder what John has written. The way I have understood it is that methane has less carbon to hydrogen than propane so burns with less of the luminous carbons. It seems strange because more luminous particles sounds like a brighter atmosphere but then I guess it is the particles that add the murkiness. Completely lost with how that would help out a burner design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnolia Mud Research Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 Joel, Once upon a time, I also found that wax did not work for me. I switched to shellac. It flows nicely, dries quickly, smells good, is removable with denatured alcohol, and the brushes clean quickly with denatured alcohol. It does not cause the glaze to 'bead up' as well as wax, but the glaze does wash off easily with a wet sponge. If applied with a thick coat to produce a smooth surface, the glaze wipes off easier as the grains of glaze material don't get caught in the holes of the bisque. Fill up the holes with something that burns out is the main function of the resist. Olive oil repels water, but is not a useful resist as the glaze particles still get trapped in the pores of the bisque. I no longer use it because I redesigned my pots to more easily allow me to not get glaze on the parts that should not be glazed, foot rings, lids, etc. Much of my exterior decoration is now done with stains, applied clay washes, or just left bare. When necessary to dip the whole pot into glaze, I first wet the pot with water to saturate the areas that should be glaze free. Very little glaze 'sticks' there and wiping is adequate. Eliminating the steps of adding resist, cleaning the bottom, etc. made glazing less of a chore and saves time. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 Completely lost with how that would help out a burner design. A huge amount of heat transfer is via radiant energy. Like the main way energy gets transferred in electric kilns. Hot elements radiate electromagnetic energy in line of sight fashion. So all those glowing carbons make excellent little tiny "heating elements" floating around the kiln. best, ..............john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 FYI - the typical shellac found in big box stores is Zinsser which contains an abundance of wax. Zinsser also has a shellac which they label as a sanding sealer which contains no wax. I'm would assume you would prefer to use the one that has wax. Shellac can be cleaned with any alcohol including isopropyl and your favorite whiskey. Denatured alcohol (methylated spirits in some parts of the world) is ethanol (the stuff that's in whiskey) that has been denatured (poisoned) to prevent it being used for... recreational or medicinal purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 "I open the pot of stinky wax" I've used both the oil and water based waxes and never had stinky wax, wonder whats going on there? Is it moldy? It's not latex resist is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 Your wax need to be tossed and start over. Do not let wax freeze. I have had wax twice turn into unusable stinky fluids(in 40 years)-both times it was some new type of wax from new sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 I've seen moldy wax, and it still works, although it's kinda nasty. I've also seen wax that was frozen- it's not useable. I've also seen wax that has started to separate a bit. Blending it with the stick blender works sometimes, but sometimes it's too far gone. When in doubt, get new wax. I'm still unclear on exactly what the problem is. Do you have trouble applying it, or you just don't like the look of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnolia Mud Research Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 Ron, the shellac I used was mfg. ~1984. No wax added. IPA (isopropanol -- aka rubbing alcohol) can contain up to 50 % vol. water, which will turn the shellac cloudy and it is not as efficient as a solvent as is denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol is almost anhydrous and is (was in '84) the solvent for making shellac. As a resist, any quick drying 100 % organic 'paint' will work to prevent glaze adhering. If I were doing it today, I would a chose a cheap art acrylic matte medium. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Magnolia Mud Research, My apologies, my intention was not to offend you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted February 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 The alcohol is just for cleaning sponges/brushes right? Once I paint the shellac on the pots I can dip in glaze and then that is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted February 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 I've seen moldy wax, and it still works, although it's kinda nasty. I've also seen wax that was frozen- it's not useable. I've also seen wax that has started to separate a bit. Blending it with the stick blender works sometimes, but sometimes it's too far gone. When in doubt, get new wax. I'm still unclear on exactly what the problem is. Do you have trouble applying it, or you just don't like the look of it? I think it was a mixture of the wax being smelly and I had trouble applying it so gave up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Wax application is a skill-it takes time to learn. I used to hire folks from collage to wax mu line of work.I have trained many a kid to wax pots. Anyone can wax pots well after learning this skill-like painting-you learn to control the paint with a brush-at first you are sloppy and have little control- back to wax it has to me there right thickness not over thinned so it runs.Weather you brush it or use a damp cut sponge like me its all in the control of the wax. I think many do not learn this process and its always an issue. I suggest practice on bisque ware that is junk so you have a surface to practice on.Learn to get a straight line on a curved form- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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