Pyewackette
-
Posts
505 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Posts posted by Pyewackette
-
-
@GEP I don't think cleaning a Shimpo/Nidec is anything like as difficult as any other pugmill. Now that I've seen a video of someone cleaning out a Bailey (and only partially at that) I agree, that's an ordeal. No wonder my Engineer clay friend doesn't like it! I could swear I'd been told the Peter Pugger was worse to clean out and the Bailey was "easier" (than the PP) but it sure looks the other way 'round.
But the Shimpos have a clamshell cover over the augur and the nose cone comes off entirely. @Russ says its a 5 minute cleanout, and it may be for him. (Hey, Russ, btw, how long have you had yours?) I'm pretty sure it would take me longer than that, but at least considerably less than the 2 hours @Min mentions for her Bailey. 2 hours for me to clean one of those would probably be extremely optimistic LOL!
I'm coming to this late in life, after decades trying to get here. So no, I don't want to limit myself to one clay. Were I younger and still up to wedging I might feel differently, but that's not where I am. I love the red clays, I want to try some of the really delicate porcelain stuff, I want to burnish and that's earthenware. I like the exposed clay bodies, which is why I don't much care for the "white" stoneware at the studio where I've been working. Fired to bisque, its a sort of insipid pink with red spots - apparently it has a fair amount of iron for a "white" clay. Glazes tend to pinhole over it. Due to the changing of the guard over there, there are problems with it anyway right now but they're dead out of the B-mix clone they usually have that I might have tried instead. Anyway. I've never cared for the white clays much. Hsin Chuen Lin has inspired me to learn the porcelain, but I don't want to give up my lurvely lurvely reds.
Besides, I've been told I'm the cleanest potter anyone has ever met. I would probably clean a pugmill between batches anyway.
So whatever time I've got left, I want to spend it doing what I want to do and if that means getting an expensive piece of equipment like a pugmill and cleaning it out once in awhile, that's what I'll do. I know 100% that cleaning it out once in awhile is going to beat the drudgery and physical stress of trying to wedge hundreds of pounds of clay. At least I have the wherewithal to manage it financially (though nothing extra LOL!). I've had a windfall and I intend to spend it. What the heck would I be saving it for at my age? LOL!
I just hope that I don't find out something bad about the Shimpo's now that I've got all excited about them. Like you can't get parts or they break down all the time. Or the free shipping ends before I have space for one. EEEK!
Thanks for your comments.
Pye
-
Actually, there is another reason I need to reclaim my clay. Once I've got my wheel setup, I will be squashing nearly everything I throw in my quest for the Perfect Cylinder. At every step I'll be throwing and squashing so I get a ton of practice. That's going to be a whole lotta clay to just throw out.
Right now since I have to schlep myself and all my stuff all the way across town to the studio, I tend NOT to squash nearly as much as I ought. Having gone to all the trouble of getting out there its tough to come back with nothing concrete (or bisque, at any rate) to show for it. Plus its a class situation and I am at least somewhat susceptible to the blandishments of the instructor who of course wants his students to have something to keep at the end of class.
-
@Min I've never NOT had to wedge bagged clay. It's always either too hard or too soft or sits around long enough that its starting to become too hard. I don't want to be wedging under ANY circumstances. I indulge myself very infrequently - practically never - so grant me this one indulgence this time ...
But I am cheap enough that I want to maximize the bang for the buck, hence the question about the advantage of a mixing pugger over a non-mixer (04s vs 07s in this case, unless I change my mind again by the time pugmill-buying time actually rolls around)
-
For me its not about recycling reclaim - I would do that ANYWAY. I don't waste.
It's about not having to wedge. I'm old and I have trouble with my shoulders AND my wrists (mostly shoulder and back issues). I'd rather use up my physical reserves actually throwing than getting clay ready to be thrown. I'm also cheap (believe it or not) and the ONLY reason to get a pugger for me is so I don't have to wedge. It is the difference between throwing and not throwing. For that, I'll pay $5000. Just to reclaim? Nope.
Thanks for the responses.
- neilestrick and kswan
-
2
-
All 3 pugmills (the Bailey and both Shimpos) are full stainless de-airing pugmills.
The larger Shimpo, the 07, is a mixer pugmill. The smaller Shimpo, the 04, is not. I don't know about the Bailey, I can't find anything that says one way or the other.
The 04 has apparently undergone a recent upgrade, not sure what the difference is from the original model.
Partial teardown/cleaning of Bailey A-400
NV04S foreign language (Czech?) demo video
In the video on the 04, turns out they don't actually talk in it and the few captions have English translations. Mostly one or another wistful looking young women languidly demonstrate the use of the pugmill. When it comes to cleaning, it appears to amount to popping the nozzle off then releasing the bolts on the augur chamber, which then folds up like a clamshell to fully expose the twin augurs and the hopper. While I wouldn't claim a 5 minute clean-up job there, it sure LOOKS like its a lot simpler than either the Peter Pugger or the Bailey. Both of those appear (from the associated videos) to be WAY more complicated to clean. In fact I can see now why my engineer-come-potter friend says the Bailey is hard to clean, and I can understand why it takes Min 2 hours to get it apart and cleaned out. The Peter Pugger doesn't look all that much better. I know that's an "old" pugmill in the PP video, but it doesn't look substantially different from the new ones.
I did find a video of a Venco, which appears to de-air as a two step process - at least the guy using it put the clay through once just to pug it and then put it through a second time to de-air. Also looks bad to clean, but its sort of moot given it is unobtanium at present here in the US.
I get the caveats about parts availability, especially since it would appear that this pugmill is a new introduction to the US. At least I hadn't seen it before that I recall.
But as things stand - and realizing that I'm already going to be almost a year behind just getting my wheel setup and getting a kiln - at present it sure LOOKS like the Shimpo, one or the other, is my best bet for ease of cleaning.
I'm not sure whether or not I really need the mixing function of the larger 07 and the self-feeding (allegedly) of the 04 sure does look nice, but I'll talk to my engineery-potter friend next week about mixing and pugmills. Last time we talked about it he was of the opinion that its a generally useless function, but I think he was approaching it from the point of view of people who think they can dispense with a mixer (and I was among that number before I figured it out, no it does NOT replace having a mixer).
Russ, as an owner of an 04, do you think its easier to keep your beast fed than other pugmills? It still has a lever, but its a lot smaller and the girl in the video (not that you can trust an edited video) doesn't appear to put any particular strength into pressing the lever down.
Folks, how much is added to usability by being able to drop dry chunks in the larger machine, keeping in mind this is not a commercial enterprise and I'm just one little old lady. I've never actually HAD dry chunks around since I recycle through a slop bucket. The odd lost brick of dried out clay just got tossed in a bucket with water to rehydrate. What do I not know that I might regret later?
Thanks for the input and advice.
Pye
-
@neilestrick It was my understanding that the Peter Puggers are really obnoxious to clean, is that not in fact the case?
@Callie Beller Diesel He liked the much higher vacuum of the Venco. He has an engineering background LOL! So do I for all that. But they don't seem to be available here anymore. I think what he didn't like about the Bailey is that he thinks they are hard to clean, which is sort of the opposite of what I had heard about it. I won't get a chance to talk to him about it in more detail until early next week.
The pugs are 3 and 3.5" in diameter. Bailey is 2.75, so not that much difference. I'd rather the larger pug personally, I've never really adjusted to the small size of the pugs out of the Bailey. I mean I know you could adjust for length but they always seem too skinny to me. I know they'll be a little heavier for the same length. I don't have a problem handling the pugs after they're cut.
- I REALLY care about how easy they are to clean out and the Shimpo looks a lot easier to do that. It also matters whether the 04S is harder or easier to clean or the same as the 07S - with the double auger it looks like it might be harder, but video is lacking. The only videos for the 04S that I've found so far are in Romanian or something. Polish or Russian maybe. Definitely not English. I'll have to go see how the auto translate for closed captioning is working for that, I forgot to turn it on and see last night.
- I'm not sure whether or not I should care about being able to throw dry chunks and some water in to the 07S rather than the 04S. The engineer in me is impressed by the chewing ability of the mixer function on the 07S, but the old person in me is more impressed by the fact that the 04S is self-feeding. I'm good with slaking reclaim, and honestly most of the attraction of a pugmill for me is the de-airing and the ability to put bagged clay through it. I have become addicted to NOT wedging thanks to the de-aired clay at the studio. I intend to continue in that vein LOL!
- I can't really guess "how often" I would change clays since I don't know what the hopper capacity is for any of the 3 pugmills under discussion (or any other pugmill for that matter). I don't expect to have more than 2 or 3 types of clay available at a time. I do expect to buy clay at least 500 lbs (per variety) at a time once I zone in on 3 or 4 types I like best. Red earthenware will definitely be in there, also at least one red cone 6 stoneware, a B-mix clone, and someday some porcelain. I am finding that I am going through more clay per session than I expected, eg I am throwing faster and more confidently and I expect that to continue for awhile yet before I hit my limits regarding that. Once I have daily access to a wheel that will increase by several order of magnitude - I do not own a car so needing to borrow my son's limits my access to the public studio. That basically means 2 or 3 times a week is usually all I can manage due to having to GET there LOL! Currently ONE of those days is devoted to handbuilding but the wheel is my True Love.
- The 04S pugs out 440lbs per hour, 07S 720, Bailey A400 says "400 to 600" lbs per hour. At its low end the Bailey would be equivalent to the 04S but at the high not that far behind the 07S.
- I expect to experiment with pug storage until I find what is easiest and most appropriate for me. For one thing I need to SEE how much a load is to know what size container might be appropriate. Whatever I put the pugs in after extrusion I would want it to be possible to get a wheeled dolly for it (or build one).
- I will get training on the studio pugmill before trying to run one in my home.
- If I couldn't find a roller tray for the Bailey I would have to build one so I consider that in cost whether of time or money. The Bailey at the studio (admittedly much larger than the one *I* would get) has a roller and it really does make it easier to handle IMO.
Thanks for your help.
-
I was talking to my wheel instructor about pugmills and he tried to sell me on a Venco. I can't remember what it was he didn't like about the Bailey, which is what they have at the studio. I did look at the Venco, or tried to, but it is apparently NOT currently for sale in the US (at least not that I could find).
However I have come across Shimpo/Nidec puggers that look to be even easier to clean than the Bailey. Clay-King has them, I don't know if there is a dealer closer than that to Texas, but shipping IS "free", probably because Shimpo is offering free drop shipping at the moment. The NV04S is fully stainless, de-airs, has twin augers that supposedly make it self-feeding and improve processing of hydrated reclaim (and maybe other advantages), comes with a roller table and cutter, roughly 1/2 HP motor. It's on wheels so I'm guessing it doesn't need a worktable to mount it on. Clay King has it for $5852 shipped.
NV07S is essentially the same (including price) except with a 1HP motor and a single auger. You can put dry chunks of clay in and mix with water, NV04S can't handle that.
They both appear to run off 120V which is too bad given I have a 20A 240V dedicated circuit in the garage LOL! So I would probably have to have a dedicated circuit run for it when I get the wiring for the kiln installed.
I'm hoping to be able to put in a kiln by sometime this summer. The pugmill isn't my first priority (there is still some electrical work aside from kiln wiring, plumbing, and odds and ends to be dealt with in the living space) but it IS on my list, and I hadn't seen Shimpo pugmills nor seen them discussed last time I looked into this, in July.
I want something easy to clean, the least work for me to run it, easy to operate. I will be changing clay types relatively often, definitely between earthenware, stoneware, and red/colored vs "white" clays. I'd like to keep my options open re porcelain - though I am unlikely to get any closer to it than B-mix for some time yet.
Does anybody have experience with the Shimpo pugmills? Compared to the Bailey A-400 Stainless steel de-airing pug mill at $4950 with the table for it (apparently Bailey doesn't carry any sort of roller thingy to handle the extruded pugs).
-
On 5/14/2020 at 7:37 AM, nancylee said:
I'm making pottery for over 9 years and I still can't center well. Anything over 4 or 5 pounds and I'm screwed. I've had excellent teachers show me, I've watched hundreds of videos, practiced hundreds and hundreds of hours and still can't do it. One reason I started handbuilding more.
I wonder if body shape has anything to do with it. I'm very strong, should be able to do this, but I am also very short-waisted and have long limbs. Wonder if that affects it?? Probably a ludicrous thought, but has crossed my mind so I thought I'd ask.
Nancy
Wow, that took forever! What the heck happened to a simple "reply to"???
Anyway to respond to the actual post = I am a freak of nature. I'm 5'2" tall (just measured myself the other day and I'm STILL apparently 5'2", I should probably have my son do it to make sure I'm not off in self-measuring, I would have assumed I'd shrunk by this age). Not long ago I did some calculations and if my body were proportionate, I would be either no shorter than 5'9" (to 5' 11") or no taller than 4'11" (4'-9.5" at the low end) depending on whether you start from the limbs or the trunk LOL!
But I have no trouble at all centering. I did have to be "reminded" after an 8 year gap, but it did come back right away once someone showed me how again. Granted I am not throwing large amounts of clay yet, but so far, so good on the re-potting trail.
-
This one's not behind a pay wall: Ehren Tools War Cups
Revisiting the pugmill decision
in Equipment Use and Repair
Posted · Edited by Pyewackette
So sadly I AM finding out some less than stellar information about the Shimpo pugmills.
This guy hates his 07ss
This guy hates his 04ss
The second one sounds like learning curve issues, but the first is worrisome. I don't find a whole lot about Shimpo pugmills out there (google is becoming more and more useless as they get hard core about sending you to commercial sites instead of informational links) - a handful of folks who have had one for years and seemed happy about it (generally these are blog posts that tend to be fairly old, like 6 or 7 years) and one offhand comment on Reddit (for what that's worth) about them being "crappy" with no further explanation.
The way they treated that guy with the corrosion in his stainless steel barrel makes me not only not want a Shimpo pugmill, it makes me not want to upgrade my Shimpo wheel to another Shimpo. But, Russ has had the 04-not-ss for years (I found a post from 2013 so he's had it at least that long) and has been happy. I am further investigating. I sure do like the clamshell design on the 04ss (Sadly lacking on the 07).
Peter Puggers claim to be true mixing pugmills, eg "mix clay from powder and water". I'm assuming you have to dig it out and mix multiple batches before you can pug it all. Has anybody actually mixed clay from dry to throwable in a Peter Pugger?