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Bailey Broke, Returning Shimpo NVS 07, Buying Peter Pugger???


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I have a lot of experience with pug mills.  I have a BAILEY MXP-70T.  It sat for 5 years bagged up from the last teacher who never used it.  It is a dual auger.  I come on board and It worked for a while then the motor kept getting locked up and something broke in the motor area.  Amazing mixes, but took forever, small hopper, and had to be hooked up outside my classroom  to a single phase, 240v plug outdoors.  Now out of warranty.  I may sell it to someone who wants to embark on a Pandora's Box to repair it. 

I just bought a SHIMPO NVS-07.  I bought it for the HUGE hopper door (10" x 13"), all-in-one design, and Shimpo's reputation and support.  But I am beyond frustrated and returning it. It had major problems for me. I have spent over 25 hours with this machine. 

  • Unless the batch is absolutely perfect, it comes out with holes in the logs... or won't it won't pug 
  • And, it won't stop making holes unless you pug at speed 5 or less out of 10.  So it takes forever!
  • Even NEW CLAY out of the bag put in came out with holes (company says holes means it's too wet... that is ridiculous) Batch was PERFECT!  See Tan clay photos
  • It only pugs out about 28 useable out of 45 pounds mixed
  • Water-added gets stuck right up into the lid so it doesn't get into the batch
  • They made the Air intake IN the lid, so if clay gets stuck in the lid, the air intake is blocked ( not truly de-aired- I've had logs spinning as they come out)
  • The latch for the door is really hard to open and close over and over again due to design
  • It took 8 hours to pug up 4 boxes of clay due to having to re-do batches
  • They want to charge me $500 restocking fee even though it doesn't perform they way it is advertised.  I'm fighting this.  That's wrong. 

I though about getting a PETER PUGGER 20.  Now, I'm gun-shy.  I can't find a single place in Los Angeles to try one out.  My School District is leery now that I want to return the Shimpo.  I like that PP can plug in to a normal wall plug like the Shampoo.  It can be in my classroom. 

PETER PUGGER Questions:

  1. Has anyone gotten HOLES in the center of their clay logs from a PP?
  2. Do PPs also have to pug super slow?  My Baily was fast.
  3. Does a lot clay get all stuck in the lid?  Does it have to be cleared all the time?
  4. Does water tend to get shoved up into the lid area clay, not allowing it to affect the batch?
  5. Is the issue with sucking back-in the clay for the De-Airing to reach both chambers at least a "reliable" and a repeatable task for success?
  6. Can you mix batches a little wet or a little dry to suit your needs, without major issues (not pugging, holes, bubbles, etc.)
  7. Are single augers, though stronger and won't break down like dual augers, doomed to have these issues?
  8. I can't spend more than $5,000

See Photos.  Photos of Shampoo NVS 07 holes in batches.  New clay (tan) is straight out of the bag and old clay (grey) is mixed reclaim.  The grey clay has a lot of sand so it tends to have that look in the photos.

JasonIMG_9086.jpg.23b9f6a4eee16b39d47275554f35ebc6.jpgIMG_9085.jpg.d22d90ed259c86f442eea615316c3ebb.jpgIMG_9049.jpg.88a38fa3c27439eb5467d338b150a447.jpgIMG_9013.jpg.cc3839fdfc63f5cf4ae85ccdd2832c13.jpgIMG_9012.jpg.e03c2f2a1c0edbf1a01f21281220d8b2.jpgIMG_9040.jpg.8f71a4ffb5902da41f2e04871a435e6f.jpgIMG_3968.jpg.3cea5ead16c52fb795af02c95e9bf2c6.jpg

Edited by JASON GANLEY
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Jason:

i own an SS 20 and have used Shimpo before. Regardless of the maker, each will have its own issues when straight water is poured into the chamber. If I pour water into the back of my pugger, in tends to leak into the vacuum chamber. Puggers work in part by creating pressure on the chamber walls: which include the hopper lid. 

TIP

I mix all of my own clays from custom blended recipes. I blend 50lbs dry, setting aside the plasticizer. In the case of stoneware, that plasticizer would be the plastic ball clay. I mix the plasticizer with my pre- measured water the night before to hydrate it. Before I mix, I add the dry powder mix to the water until it becomes a thick slip in consistency. After I load the chamber with dry powder, I pour in 1/4th the slip water and run it for a minute; open and add another 1/4th, mix for a minute..repeat until most of the slip water is added. I keep back about a quarts worth. Then I mix for five minutes on med. high/ check consistency: then add either powder or slip water accordingly. Blends much better than straight water because the slip water has body.

T

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Adding water to a Peter Pugger is best done into the front of the chamber as stated in manual .

I spoke to Jason tonight and his issue is that machine does not get all the air out of soft clay (which is weird as soft clay is the easiest to remove air from)

The Bailey has given them grief on and off and also been fine for a spell.It now needs some new parts.

 

 

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I have been using the SS20 daily for about 3 years now.  Here are some answers to your questions. 

 

1. Has anyone gotten HOLES in the center of their clay logs from a PP?

         Only at the beginning of the pugging.  Not more than 5-6 inches with some air pockets. 

2.  Do PPs also have to pug super slow?  My Baily was fast.

         I use a top speed when pugging.  usually takes about 1-2 minutes to pug out 30-40 pounds. 

3.  Does a lot clay get all stuck in the lid?  Does it have to be cleared all the time?

        There is definitely some that builds up on and around the lid, but not a problem to scrape off every once in a while.  If it builds up around the seal it can dry out and create some vacuum leaks, but still easy to clean off.

4.  Does water tend to get shoved up into the lid area clay, not allowing it to affect the batch?

       Mark and Glazenerd have addressed the water issue.  Getting the "spins" is often a problem when adding water, but if added in small amounts in the front of the chamber it usually works itself out.

5.  Is the issue with sucking back-in the clay for the De-Airing to reach both chambers at least a "reliable" and a repeatable task for success?

      With the PP, the vacuum is first created in the rear chamber.  I usually need to start pugging to get the seal to pop and vacuum out the clay chamber.  It usually occurs after pugging out about 5-6 inches.  I then reverse the direction and pull the clay back in and mix for a few seconds.  then just pug everything out at full speed.

6.  Can you mix batches a little wet or a little dry to suit your needs, without major issues (not pugging, holes, bubbles, etc.)

     I adjust wetness to what I plan to throw.  there are definitely points of too wet or too dry for it to work well, but usually those are outside the range you would want to use anyway.

7.  Are single augers, though stronger and won't break down like dual augers, doomed to have these issues?

    Not sure.  no experience with dual augers.

8.  I can't spend more than $5,000

   I think the SS20 will slightly exceed that budget.  I tried for months to find a used one and gave up.  Don't bother with the used list on the PP website.  Most of the ones still listed sold many years ago. 

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I have a Bailey, since the vacuum is after the mixing barrel you don't get that water issue. Other thing re water / slurry is I mix up all the scrap etc to a more or less even mix then add the water / slurry and let it slake for 5 minutes before finishing the mixing.

I'm looking at the short end section of the the Shimpo and what Jeff said in his post above and am thinking the holes are due to not enough compression of the pug after the auger. I've never had a hole like that with my Bailey, perhaps because of the design. Have you tried contacting Bailey and asking how much a replacement motor would cost? Jim Bailey is very good at working out issues. If it did what you needed before it would seem logical to repair it.

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After speaking  to him last night-the Bailey has two different issues-one electrical -one broken chain.

It does seem like repair may be the cheapest option but no one around to do this repair was an issue with the school.

That shimpo looks like a poorly made knock off of a Petter Pugger-I have heard this from a few sources now that its made in china from looking at a Petter Pugger.-now its just hearsay but the barrel is not getting the air out.The vacuum is also in the lid which creates a host of issues.

I would avoid shimpo pug mills just looking at the end product

 

 

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I think a pugmill should be able to pug clay without issues at any level of moisture that's within the 'workable' range for throwing and handbuilding. That's a pretty broad range. If it's not doing that, then there's likely something wrong with the pugger or the vacuum.

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