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Dick White

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  1. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from GEP in Positive about failing elements.   
    Oh no, Babs, don't fail on us now, we love you and need you. So, what did I ever write about elements and glazes... where do I begin...
    A cursory review of the infamous Orton cone tables shows 3 columns of temperatures for each of the basic types of cone. The first column of temperatures is for a slow ramp over the last 2 hours into the final temperature, the middle column is for a medium speed ramp into the final temperature, and the third column is for a fast ramp into the final temperature. A slow ramp will bend the cone at a lower final temperature than a fast ramp, as a fast ramp must continue to a higher kiln temperature before the heatwork has penetrated the ceramic and the cone bends. Elements, as they wear out, produce less and less heat, which means the kiln will heat slower and slower (i.e., take longer and longer), particularly at the higher temperatures of mid-fire and high-fire clay bodies and glazes. A Bartlett or Orton kiln controller (Skutt controllers and the L&L DynaTrol are private label Bartletts, and the Paragon Sentry line is a private label Orton) that is programmed using a custom ramp-hold sequence to finish at a particular ramp rate to a particular temperature will continue to fire to the assigned temperature regardless of the actual ramp rate the elements can achieve in their weakened state (until the elements are so weak they just can't manage any increase in the kiln temperature, and then you get the dreaded E1 failure). Thus, if you are running a program with a set point of 1222℃ at 60℃/hour expecting it to produce a nice cone 6 per the Orton chart - but your elements are so worn that they can only manage 15℃/hour at the end - the kiln still will go to 1222℃ because that is what is programmed, but at the slower rate because that's all the kiln can do. Looking further in the Orton cone table, 1222℃ at 15℃/hour is cone 9, seriously overfired. (I'm just pulling these numbers from the table for the purpose of discussion, your studio practice and kiln condition may be different.)
    All that said about custom ramp-hold programs, there is the other side of the Orton and Bartlett controllers - the cone-fire method. You enter a speed and a cone number via the keypad, and the controller knows what to do. The cone-fire method on both these controller types contains some hidden adaptive programming that monitors the actual ramp rate in the final segment in real time. If the kiln is lagging, the controller will adjust the set point down using a proprietary algorithm from Orton so that a proper bend of the cone will occur at an appropriately lower final temperature. Using the above example, if you have set a cone 6 medium speed firing, but the elements are so worn they can only manage 15℃/hour at the end, the controller will stop at 1185℃, 37 degrees early, for a perfectly bent cone 6. Similarly, if you set a fast firing and your elements are still sufficiently robust to accomplish the higher ramp rate, the controller will automatically proceed to a higher temperature.
    Note that this adaptive behavior is only available in the cone-fire method. If you are using custom ramp-hold programming, you need to watch your cones and adjust your final set point to match the cone behavior. And when you install new elements that can actually maintain the ramp you set, you need to watch your cones and adjust your final set point to match the cone behavior. But alas, I repeat myself.
    Keep calm and carry on. Especially carry on .
  2. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Rae Reich in Firing schedules: Large kiln vs test kiln   
    The new small kiln will not fire faster than the big one, as the firing up speed is managed by the digital controller. However, the little kiln will cool much much much! faster than the E23. The glossiest glazes are not affected by the cooling rate, they will be glossy even in a slower cool. Glazes that are expected to be less glossy or matte achieve their surface during the cooling, and if the cooling is too fast, the nice microcrystalline surface will not develop. A large kiln such as your E23 will retain heat better (larger size, more thermal mass inside from more ware and shelves) and the less glossy glazes will often be nice enough (though probably more interesting if you program a slow cool). With the test kiln cooling so fast, everything will be glossy. All is not lost - program it for a slow cool and the controller will manage the cool-down for you.
    The nuance here is that the conventional programmed slow cooling will be slower than the big E23's natural "just turn it off" cooling, so you are still going to get different outcomes between the two kilns - unless you a) program both kilns with the same cool down sequence, or b) get some diagnostic equipment to precisely document the minute-by-minute natural cooling performance of the E23 and replicate that in a custom program for the little kiln.
  3. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Jen WC in New Kiln + Controller Advice Sought   
    I am a big fan of the L&L kilns. I am not personally familiar with Evenheat, Jen-Ken, or Olympic, but from all the noise in the various pottery groups on the intertubes, most of the users of those brands appear not to be production users, and most of them seem to be happy enough with their kilns. I have worked with both Skutt and L&L in several community studios with a lot of volume, and much prefer the L&L. The Skutt PK models are designed for high production environments and are pretty sturdy kilns compared to their regular line, but you can get an equivalent level from L&L with their quad element option. If you want even firing, the L&L has zone control (multiple thermocouples) as standard; you will pay extra for it from Skutt. If you get zone control from Skutt, it will manage the separate zones independently as expected, but the 3 thermocouples cannot be calibrated separately (at least in those at one studio I work with that has Skutts), you get one thermocouple offset that applies to all 3 regardless of whether a particular zone is running hotter or cooler than the others. If you are going to do your own maintenance, the hard ceramic element holders in the L&L make element changes a breeze. The Skutt pins and channels in the soft brick are hateful. As for the SSRs, they seem to be an available option for only a few of the Skutt models, so do some more comparative research if that is priority for you. Regarding the Skutt touchscreen vs. the Genesis (which is now standard on L&L kilns, you will pay extra for the Skutt KMT versions of their kilns), you have the question backwards. Both are made by Bartlett, but the Skutt version is in different form factor to match the way they designed their control panel. The screens and features are mostly comparable, but Skutt does not offer much of a written user manual, instead they build an FAQ of sorts into a help menu behind a button on the screen. Further (which borders on criminal IMO), Skutt has removed the slow cool option from the cone-fire programming. If you wish to slow cool a firing, you must construct a custom ramp-hold program that mimics the desired cone-fire program and append additional segments for the slow cool. In addition to being inconvenient, you lose access to the adaptive capability of the cone-fire method. (With this feature, either controller will monitor the ramp rate in the final segment into the target cone and automatically modify the target temperature (e.g., lower the target temperature if the ramp is lagging due to worn elements) in accordance with an algorithm licensed from Orton. In a ramp-hold program, the target temperature is absolute as programmed, which means a slower ramp due to worn elements will result in an overfire.) The Genesis has an on-off checkbox in the settings for appending a slow cooling segment to a cone-fire program. The only feature Skutt offers over the standard Genesis is an extra cost subscription to a cloud data service into which the controller will automatically upload data from every firing for later retrieval and analysis. The Genesis only retains data for the last 10 firings. If you don't subscribe to the Skutt Kiln Link cloud service, their version also retains data for just the last 10 firings.
    The foregoing is my opinion and should not be confused with what anybody else may think..
    dw
  4. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Rae Reich in ChatGPT can be very misleading   
    I agree, AI will not replace those of us who fully understand our particular niche, but that won't stop them from trying... until their reliance on AI dumps them someplace they don't know how to get out of, if only because they don't understand how they got in there. Sorta like the stories of a few years ago of people driving into swamps because that's what Google Maps told them to do.
    And back to @Kelly in AK's unrelated question... Yup, about as unstable as can be. It's not a perfectly round cross-section, we do have a nearly imperceptible keel. The stabilizing force is the same as The Great Wallenda  - his long balance pole. Our oars stick out 9' on either side. As long as we keep our hands (on the oar handles) moving in the same plane parallel to the water, the oar shafts and blades will also form a line parallel to the water, and we don't flip. Deviate one inch with either hand, and it's all over. We have a semi-serious joke - there are 2 kinds of rowers: those who have been swimming and those who will be going swimming soon. (Yes, I have been swimming, several times.)
  5. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Rae Reich in ChatGPT can be very misleading   
    Not pottery, but one of my other life distractions is rowing (in one of those Olympic-looking long, skinny, barely ass-wide boats with long oars). Someone in one of the rowing groups I hang out it asked an AI bot to describe how to achieve the optimal force curve during the rowing stroke. The bot went on for several paragraphs of blather, and ended with the suggestion you should talk to a knowledgeable person such as your coach.
  6. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Babs in ChatGPT can be very misleading   
    I agree, AI will not replace those of us who fully understand our particular niche, but that won't stop them from trying... until their reliance on AI dumps them someplace they don't know how to get out of, if only because they don't understand how they got in there. Sorta like the stories of a few years ago of people driving into swamps because that's what Google Maps told them to do.
    And back to @Kelly in AK's unrelated question... Yup, about as unstable as can be. It's not a perfectly round cross-section, we do have a nearly imperceptible keel. The stabilizing force is the same as The Great Wallenda  - his long balance pole. Our oars stick out 9' on either side. As long as we keep our hands (on the oar handles) moving in the same plane parallel to the water, the oar shafts and blades will also form a line parallel to the water, and we don't flip. Deviate one inch with either hand, and it's all over. We have a semi-serious joke - there are 2 kinds of rowers: those who have been swimming and those who will be going swimming soon. (Yes, I have been swimming, several times.)
  7. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Kelly in AK in ChatGPT can be very misleading   
    I agree, AI will not replace those of us who fully understand our particular niche, but that won't stop them from trying... until their reliance on AI dumps them someplace they don't know how to get out of, if only because they don't understand how they got in there. Sorta like the stories of a few years ago of people driving into swamps because that's what Google Maps told them to do.
    And back to @Kelly in AK's unrelated question... Yup, about as unstable as can be. It's not a perfectly round cross-section, we do have a nearly imperceptible keel. The stabilizing force is the same as The Great Wallenda  - his long balance pole. Our oars stick out 9' on either side. As long as we keep our hands (on the oar handles) moving in the same plane parallel to the water, the oar shafts and blades will also form a line parallel to the water, and we don't flip. Deviate one inch with either hand, and it's all over. We have a semi-serious joke - there are 2 kinds of rowers: those who have been swimming and those who will be going swimming soon. (Yes, I have been swimming, several times.)
  8. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Kelly in AK in ChatGPT can be very misleading   
    Not pottery, but one of my other life distractions is rowing (in one of those Olympic-looking long, skinny, barely ass-wide boats with long oars). Someone in one of the rowing groups I hang out it asked an AI bot to describe how to achieve the optimal force curve during the rowing stroke. The bot went on for several paragraphs of blather, and ended with the suggestion you should talk to a knowledgeable person such as your coach.
  9. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Babs in ChatGPT can be very misleading   
    Not pottery, but one of my other life distractions is rowing (in one of those Olympic-looking long, skinny, barely ass-wide boats with long oars). Someone in one of the rowing groups I hang out it asked an AI bot to describe how to achieve the optimal force curve during the rowing stroke. The bot went on for several paragraphs of blather, and ended with the suggestion you should talk to a knowledgeable person such as your coach.
  10. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Callie Beller Diesel in ChatGPT can be very misleading   
    Not pottery, but one of my other life distractions is rowing (in one of those Olympic-looking long, skinny, barely ass-wide boats with long oars). Someone in one of the rowing groups I hang out it asked an AI bot to describe how to achieve the optimal force curve during the rowing stroke. The bot went on for several paragraphs of blather, and ended with the suggestion you should talk to a knowledgeable person such as your coach.
  11. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from PeterH in ChatGPT can be very misleading   
    Not pottery, but one of my other life distractions is rowing (in one of those Olympic-looking long, skinny, barely ass-wide boats with long oars). Someone in one of the rowing groups I hang out it asked an AI bot to describe how to achieve the optimal force curve during the rowing stroke. The bot went on for several paragraphs of blather, and ended with the suggestion you should talk to a knowledgeable person such as your coach.
  12. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Jeff Thompson in Upgrading a Paragon A-66B to digital control   
    Two thoughts"
    I am assuming you would be constructing your own digital controller from a raw Bartlett controller and all the associated parts. As you have discovered, there are no pre-built wall-hung controllers that support a 4-wire power supply. Yes, you could remove the kiln sitter and control boxes with the switches and directly connect the controller's relay outputs to the kiln elements. That would require building new or adapting the old control boxes to appropriately contain the connections, and lengths of appropriate cable from the digital controller to the kiln. I have done this with several manual kiln conversions, though not with a 4-wire Paragon, but being familiar with the Paragon wiring diagrams, in theory it should be possible. You will need to be facile with wiring diagrams, basic metal working, some electrical skills, and understanding of element resistance/amps/etc. It's not a job for the faint of heart.
    As for your 50 amp circuit, the ampacity of the circuit should be at least 125% of the total rated ampacity of the kiln (including the extension ring if you make that a permanent part of the kiln), but not more than 150%. You didn't say what the rating plate(s) on the kiln show (i.e., is the 30 amps you mentioned the actual kiln amperage (including the extension) or just what somebody told you was what the kiln needed), but you can do the calculations yourself. If the ampacity of the circuit needs to be downrated for this kiln, you can achieve that simply by putting an appropriate lower rated breaker in the panel. There is nothing wrong with having heavier 50 amp wire servicing a 30 amp breaker. The heavier wire will be fine. Just don't do it the other way with a heavier breaker servicing lighter wire. Be aware that the limit of this 50 amp circuit is a 40 amp kiln. The larger plug-in kilns on the market are all 48 amps and require a 60 amp circuit.
     
  13. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Bill Kielb in Upgrading a Paragon A-66B to digital control   
    Two thoughts"
    I am assuming you would be constructing your own digital controller from a raw Bartlett controller and all the associated parts. As you have discovered, there are no pre-built wall-hung controllers that support a 4-wire power supply. Yes, you could remove the kiln sitter and control boxes with the switches and directly connect the controller's relay outputs to the kiln elements. That would require building new or adapting the old control boxes to appropriately contain the connections, and lengths of appropriate cable from the digital controller to the kiln. I have done this with several manual kiln conversions, though not with a 4-wire Paragon, but being familiar with the Paragon wiring diagrams, in theory it should be possible. You will need to be facile with wiring diagrams, basic metal working, some electrical skills, and understanding of element resistance/amps/etc. It's not a job for the faint of heart.
    As for your 50 amp circuit, the ampacity of the circuit should be at least 125% of the total rated ampacity of the kiln (including the extension ring if you make that a permanent part of the kiln), but not more than 150%. You didn't say what the rating plate(s) on the kiln show (i.e., is the 30 amps you mentioned the actual kiln amperage (including the extension) or just what somebody told you was what the kiln needed), but you can do the calculations yourself. If the ampacity of the circuit needs to be downrated for this kiln, you can achieve that simply by putting an appropriate lower rated breaker in the panel. There is nothing wrong with having heavier 50 amp wire servicing a 30 amp breaker. The heavier wire will be fine. Just don't do it the other way with a heavier breaker servicing lighter wire. Be aware that the limit of this 50 amp circuit is a 40 amp kiln. The larger plug-in kilns on the market are all 48 amps and require a 60 amp circuit.
     
  14. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Pres in Gerstley and EPK   
    Some N. America/USA oriented questions: This group being populated by the most knowledgeable of all the glaze groups I stumble around in, does anybody have the real story on Laguna and Gerstley (other than it has become crazy expensive)? There is also some noise about availability (or lack thereof) of EPK.
    Just wondering...
    dw
  15. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Piedmont Pottery in Poor results with Amaco Potter's Choice Blue Spark (PC-11). What can I do to improve next time?   
    It appears that the pits go all the way through to the body, so the bubbles are starting there. You say the body is rated for cone 5-10. That means it is immature at cone 5/6, not mature until 10. An alleged  wide firing range is one of the unfortunate fallacies perpetrated by the clay industry. My guess is that there is still stuff outgassing from the body at cone 6. If you are using a kiln with a digital controller, you can try a controlled cooling to allow the glaze to heal over any bubbles that are coming up.
    As for the unexpected color, I'm not familiar with that glaze.
  16. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Hulk in Poor results with Amaco Potter's Choice Blue Spark (PC-11). What can I do to improve next time?   
    It appears that the pits go all the way through to the body, so the bubbles are starting there. You say the body is rated for cone 5-10. That means it is immature at cone 5/6, not mature until 10. An alleged  wide firing range is one of the unfortunate fallacies perpetrated by the clay industry. My guess is that there is still stuff outgassing from the body at cone 6. If you are using a kiln with a digital controller, you can try a controlled cooling to allow the glaze to heal over any bubbles that are coming up.
    As for the unexpected color, I'm not familiar with that glaze.
  17. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Skydve76 in Another "bought an old kiln help me thread" :)   
    Others may have different opinions, but I would not get clay from Amazon. Not that Amazon sells bad clay, but if possible you will be better served to find a clay store near you and develop a customer relationship with them. They will be able to guide you to appropriate clay bodies and glazes that will work together.
  18. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Skydve76 in Another "bought an old kiln help me thread" :)   
    Ok, that gives us some useful technical data. Applying the math of Ohm's Law in reverse to the rating plate  - 4 equal elements pulling a total of 30 amps or 7200 watts at 240V, each of the 4 elements in perfect shape should be 32 ohms. That's pretty close to what you are showing on your meters. Now, taking that to the next step in guesstimating kiln performance, your Gare 2318 is approximately the same size as a Skutt 1018 or an L&L e23S. Those each produce around 9500 watts, or about 30% more heat than your kiln. Add to that, your older kiln probably is made with 2 1/2" brick vs. the current standard of 3" brick, so your kiln will lose more heat to ambient radiant losses. Consequently, my rough guess is that cone 6 will be its maximum capability, and even that will be hard work for the kiln.
  19. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Roberta12 in Poor results with Amaco Potter's Choice Blue Spark (PC-11). What can I do to improve next time?   
    It appears that the pits go all the way through to the body, so the bubbles are starting there. You say the body is rated for cone 5-10. That means it is immature at cone 5/6, not mature until 10. An alleged  wide firing range is one of the unfortunate fallacies perpetrated by the clay industry. My guess is that there is still stuff outgassing from the body at cone 6. If you are using a kiln with a digital controller, you can try a controlled cooling to allow the glaze to heal over any bubbles that are coming up.
    As for the unexpected color, I'm not familiar with that glaze.
  20. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Magnolia Mud Research in Poor results with Amaco Potter's Choice Blue Spark (PC-11). What can I do to improve next time?   
    There is another theory about pinholes in commercial brushing glazes that is not widely discussed. That theory holds that when the first coat of glaze is brushed on, there are likely to be some small voids in the coating that are nearly unnoticeable. When the second coat is applied, it doesn't get down in these little voids, creating air bubbles where the second (and later coats) cover them up. Late in the firing, the melt finally gets down to that layer, and the bubbles erupt out through the glaze. Just an idea. If you don't have trouble with this clay body pinholing with dipping glazes, you probably can eliminate the body as the problem and look towards your brush application.
  21. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Babs in Poor results with Amaco Potter's Choice Blue Spark (PC-11). What can I do to improve next time?   
    There is another theory about pinholes in commercial brushing glazes that is not widely discussed. That theory holds that when the first coat of glaze is brushed on, there are likely to be some small voids in the coating that are nearly unnoticeable. When the second coat is applied, it doesn't get down in these little voids, creating air bubbles where the second (and later coats) cover them up. Late in the firing, the melt finally gets down to that layer, and the bubbles erupt out through the glaze. Just an idea. If you don't have trouble with this clay body pinholing with dipping glazes, you probably can eliminate the body as the problem and look towards your brush application.
  22. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from MKG001 in Poor results with Amaco Potter's Choice Blue Spark (PC-11). What can I do to improve next time?   
    There is another theory about pinholes in commercial brushing glazes that is not widely discussed. That theory holds that when the first coat of glaze is brushed on, there are likely to be some small voids in the coating that are nearly unnoticeable. When the second coat is applied, it doesn't get down in these little voids, creating air bubbles where the second (and later coats) cover them up. Late in the firing, the melt finally gets down to that layer, and the bubbles erupt out through the glaze. Just an idea. If you don't have trouble with this clay body pinholing with dipping glazes, you probably can eliminate the body as the problem and look towards your brush application.
  23. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Kelly in AK in Poor results with Amaco Potter's Choice Blue Spark (PC-11). What can I do to improve next time?   
    It appears that the pits go all the way through to the body, so the bubbles are starting there. You say the body is rated for cone 5-10. That means it is immature at cone 5/6, not mature until 10. An alleged  wide firing range is one of the unfortunate fallacies perpetrated by the clay industry. My guess is that there is still stuff outgassing from the body at cone 6. If you are using a kiln with a digital controller, you can try a controlled cooling to allow the glaze to heal over any bubbles that are coming up.
    As for the unexpected color, I'm not familiar with that glaze.
  24. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Skydve76 in Another "bought an old kiln help me thread" :)   
    Yes, always connect the green (or bare) ground wire to the ground lug of either plug or receptacle, so that the case is grounded at all times.
  25. Like
    Dick White got a reaction from Skydve76 in Another "bought an old kiln help me thread" :)   
    Back in the day, dryers (with a 10-30 plug) and stoves (with a 10-50 plug) used 240V from the two hots for the heating circuits while the controls and interior lights used 120V from one of the hots plus the neutral. Apparently, independent grounding wasn't a high priority back then for those household appliances as chassis grounding was permitted through the neutral, though the  really old120/240V kilns that we sometimes get involved with here all use proper 4-wire grounded circuits. In '96, the code changed to mandate separate grounding everywhere, hence the change to 14-30 and 14-50 for all new dryer and stove circuits. There is still a neutral for any 120V components in the dryers or stoves, but now there is a separate safety ground. However, you can still get a 10-30 cord for a new dryer if you are installing it in a grandfathered pre-'96 house.
    I too suspect it is unlikely that this kiln has anything in it running on 120V (that would need the neutral), and therefore should be fine with a fresh 6-50 power cord, with the circuit in/on the wall running a straight double 240V 40A breaker and 8 /2-with ground cable to a 6-50R outlet. 
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