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Painting / Trailing Surfaces


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#1 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:42 AM

I have been experimenting with trailing glaze in squeeze bottles and painting on with fine paintbrushes. I feel like there has got to be a better way to do what I am attempting to do. With the small brush I literally have to dab it on and re apply to the brush as the glaze dries on the bristles too fast.  The squeeze bottle is almost too large of a hole for the glaze, I feel like i don't have that much control.  

 

I have seen some people used needle tip bottles- do these work well? 

What kind of brushes do you use for small/delicate designs? 

Any other advice? 

 

 

 

The vulture pot is done using a trail squeeze bottle- as you can see it pooled up in some places. I had to work very fast. I used wax resist over the design and then brushed on the tenmoku.  

 

The Poppy Utensil holder is applied using a paint brush.. it was a pain in the ass to do. I just brushed clear glaze over the design. It was one of the last pieces I plan to make in white stoneware clay body.  

 

Maybe describe how you would have gone about creating these designs?  Thank you!! 

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Learning On my Kick wheel with my vintage Paragon (from the late 1960's)

#2 neilestrick

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:59 AM

Your slip has to be at just the right viscosity, and you have to have a pretty small tip on the bottle. We use THESE bottles that have a mechanical pencil tip screwed onto them. If you use deflocculated slip, you can do the trailing onto pots that are dryer than leather hard, which makes the slip set faster so it doesn't run so badly.


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#3 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:11 PM

I have been painting it with commercial glaze.  The one used here is the Coyote Mid fire red/orange. I have never used a colored slip before. I want to know how on earth people make such delicate beautiful paintings on their work!! It seems nearly impossible. 


Learning On my Kick wheel with my vintage Paragon (from the late 1960's)

#4 neilestrick

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:12 PM

My bad. I was thinking slip. For glaze you might want to use an underglaze, or an overglaze technique like majolica.


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#5 Brian Reed

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:56 PM

I would try some of the underglazes as I have found them to be better for brush work rather than glazes.

 

Sorry I do not know the difference between them, but I suspect that underglaze has very little clay in them.  Maybe someone knowledgeable can chime in. 

 

my 2 cents.


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#6 neilestrick

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:34 PM

Think of underglazes as a slip-glaze hybrid. They fuse more than a slip, so they can be applied at any stage -wet, leather, bone dry, bisque- but they do not melt into glass like a glaze. They do not run or flow when fired, and they can be trailed like a slip. They are typically very saturated with colorants so you can get intense colors and good coverage with just two coats. They are usually colored with stains, so the color in the bottle is the same as the fired color. They are not food safe without being covered with an appropriate glaze.


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#7 RuthB

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:54 PM

I know people do paint with glaze. The glaze needs to made brushable, by adding glycerin, CMC or a glycol product such as antifreeze. The CMC can get stinky, so add some kind of disinfectant (bleach, hydrogen peroxide, alcohol) to the mix. Sorry, I don't have any suggestions for the amount to add.

Hopefully, a little trial and error will get you there!

 

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#8 TJR

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:09 PM

Ruth;

I paint on glazes all the time. In fact, all of my work is banded and  brush decorated. I use bamboo brushes that hold a lot of liquid. I paint oxides on bisque ware that has an unfired glaze on it. I glaze my pots, then let them sit for a day, then decorate over the glaze. Over the glaze you get a sharper line quality,as compared to decorating and then applying the glaze over that. The oxides need to flow, so you need to add just the right amount of water. A good starting point would be iron oxide plus a little Albany slip/Alberta slip. Try some designs on newspaper first. Check out my gallery for images. I apologize. I really need to update them.

TJR.



#9 Chris Campbell

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:26 PM

rebbylicious -

 

I would go with Ruth's idea of researching ways to make your glaze more brushable. Brushed on glaze designs produce a flowing, two dimensional surface that leads to more variety in your results. TJR's pots showcase that look. Scott Barnim's work also showcases that flowing, mildly out of control look though I think he might use some kind of stencil or template when applying his glaze designs.

Underglazes will be flat so you would lose that quality. Slips won't move, so you would lose that.

So, if you like the look then research and practice, practice, practice. :rolleyes: :D

Good luck and post pix as you progress.


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#10 RuthB

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:36 PM

Ruth;

I paint on glazes all the time. In fact, all of my work is banded and  brush decorated. I use bamboo brushes that hold a lot of liquid. I paint oxides on bisque ware that has an unfired glaze on it. I glaze my pots, then let them sit for a day, then decorate over the glaze. Over the glaze you get a sharper line quality,as compared to decorating and then applying the glaze over that. The oxides need to flow, so you need to add just the right amount of water. A good starting point would be iron oxide plus a little Albany slip/Alberta slip. Try some designs on newspaper first. Check out my gallery for images. I apologize. I really need to update them.

TJR.

Nice work!  I've done brushwork with oxides on top of the glaze in the past, but am a bit rusty now.... I'm working on it again and am struck by the fact that WYSInotWYG! Takes a lot of practice and experience to know how much oxide to put on the brush, how much pressure to use, etc. I'll give the RIO with Albany a try on the next piece.  

 

Ruth



#11 Celia UK

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:36 PM

Hope you don't mind me butting in on this one. I posted my query elsewhere, but it's along a similar theme and I thought I'd grab you while you're online.
I am using oxides (usually copper oxide/carbonate) to highlight some parts of my pots, by masking where I don't want this, and spraying the oxide solution lightly with an airbrush. I'm aiming for a subtle 'blush' within the transparent glaze. A few questions to help me perfect the process! I particularly want to avoid the oxides moving on to areas I want to remain white, and want a subtle effect overall.

- does it make any difference whether the oxide is under or over the transparent glaze?
- if it's under, can I fire it on, to prevent it moving when covered by the glaze?
- If so, what is the lowest temperature that will achieve this?
- alternatively, could I add the oxide to some of the transparent glaze (instead of using in wash form), spray or brush this, remove masking and spray over the whole piece - would the oxide still break through?

Any advice would be most welcome. Thank you.

#12 neilestrick

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:42 PM

Norm, I have to disagree with you and Frog Pond that underglazes are just kaolin and colorant. They are not colored slip. If that were the case, they wouldn't fuse to anything but leather hard clay. And if they were truly that problematic, no one would be able to use them the way they do. And having formulated underglazes for a clay and glaze company before, I know for a fact that if the kaolin content is too high, they don't work. They have to be fluxed in order to fuse to bisque.

 

I know that everything Hesselberth says is supposed to be golden, and I have great respect for him, but I have used 4 different brands of commercial underglazes over the least 10 years and have never had flaking problems, and I use them with kids who put them on way too thick, or thin, or any other not-recommended method you can think of. I've got a load in the kiln right now with dozens of underglazed pots that won't have any issues. Good commercial underglazes (Speedball, Amaco, Spectrum) will fuse to bisque just fine, without any flaking or bubbling problems. That said, like any glaze, if you get it on way too thick it could flake. But I've had students brush on 6 coats with good results.

 

There is no reason to avoid commercial underglazes.


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#13 nancylee

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:24 PM

Butting in here, too. What kind of glaze can you apply, and then paint over, as TJR does? I use underglazes mostly, the bright ones can make brights when fired. I have been using neons.
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#14 Benzine

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:34 PM

I'm a big fan of using underglaze, for detailed work, that I don't want to bleed.  I've done plenty of designs with glaze, in the cases, where I don't mind a soft edge to the design.  But for precision, I'll use the underglaze, and I tell my students the same.

 

As Neil said, I have had very few problems with underglazes flaking.  I do have one bottle, of a certain color, that has been doing it as of late, but it has proved to be the exception.  Otherwise, I'm a big fan.


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#15 neilestrick

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:47 PM

Regardless, our hand-crafted under-glazes are far superior and are much less costly.

 

People who don't appreciate the benefits of hand-crafted buy a dish or mug from Mikasa rather than from Neil Strick.

 

 

I get that, but have to draw the line somewhere. Is it still hand crafted if you fire it in a kiln you purchased, with a computer controller, rather than building your own kiln and firing it without cones? Is it still hand crafted if you didn't dig and process your own clay? Is it still hand crafted if you didn't mine the materials for the glazes? The customer doesn't care if you formulated your own underglaze. They do care is you formed the clay and applied the underglaze yourself. I use some commercial glaze accents on my pieces. Are they any less handcrafted than my other pots?

 

I think we just started another thread!


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#16 Babs

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:47 PM

Ruth;

I paint on glazes all the time. In fact, all of my work is banded and  brush decorated. I use bamboo brushes that hold a lot of liquid. I paint oxides on bisque ware that has an unfired glaze on it. I glaze my pots, then let them sit for a day, then decorate over the glaze. Over the glaze you get a sharper line quality,as compared to decorating and then applying the glaze over that. The oxides need to flow, so you need to add just the right amount of water. A good starting point would be iron oxide plus a little Albany slip/Alberta slip. Try some designs on newspaper first. Check out my gallery for images. I apologize. I really need to update them.

TJR.

Great pots TJR!

Why do you add the Albany slip? To suspend  the oxide? Or to make  the oxide more Painterly?

 Benzine, I use oxides and underglazes on my glaze Both seem to work ok except one or two Blue underglazes which do not have the same melt as others. To these I add a bit of the Frit present in the underlying glaze, ot even someof the glaze itself and that seems to do the trick.



#17 Celia UK

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:00 PM

Babs/Neil - while you're on and before I get to bed ( it's 11pm in the UK) - quick response if possible. Can I fire my already bisqued pieces which have an oxide wash in places, to fix the oxide before glazing. As this will be 3 firings in total, and trying to keep costs down, how low could the 2nd firing be?

#18 Babs

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:24 PM

I do this but only as written by Marcia, ie in impressed areas, the rest of the oxide I sponge off. So potters more educated that I would best be listened too. If it's an all over wash, not a detailed design, I wouldn't be firing prior to glazing, How are you glazing? What is your oxide as some are strong fluxes and may react with your glaze resulting in glaze dripping onto shelf. Got any thing else to fire?? Do one as a test is usually the way to go without expert knowledge. Put the pot on a stilt or sacrificial bisqued tile.

Would usually apply the overal oxide prebisquing, after trimming.



#19 neilestrick

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:26 PM

Babs/Neil - while you're on and before I get to bed ( it's 11pm in the UK) - quick response if possible. Can I fire my already bisqued pieces which have an oxide wash in places, to fix the oxide before glazing. As this will be 3 firings in total, and trying to keep costs down, how low could the 2nd firing be?

 

Depends on the oxide wash as to how hot you'll need to go to fuse it on.


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#20 Chris Campbell

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 07:01 PM

I feel I have to hop in here too ... I have never had any problems with Amaco underglazes ... Cannot vouch for any others but would recommend them for their flexibility, wide range of uses and easiness of use.
Sure, you can make your own cheaper but I can vouch for the commercial ones.
Next time I see John H. I'll check if that was his study ... I'd be interested in hearing his results if it was.

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