ayjay Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I'm starting to get away from bought glazes and mixing my own instead, mostly from previously published recipes but I like to give them a tweak here and there,. (firing to ^6 Ox) I often see Redart listed as a glaze ingredient and am wondering if any red earthenware clay will provide a good substitute or is there something special about Redart which makes it particularly suitable as a glaze ingredient? I have access to some Fremington clay and obviously any other clay available at suppliers here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OffCenter Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Earthenware clays aren't interchangeable but some may be close enough to sub for each other, especially if the earthenware clay is a low percentage of the glaze. You may get a glaze that works but it will not be the same glaze. You can compare the two clays you mentioned here: http://digitalfire.com/4sight/material/redart_1191.html and here: http://digitalfire.com/4sight/material/fremington_clay_320.html?logout=yes Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 it would be good to know where "here" is. in USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 ok, jim, the recipe i have for a red clay that fires at cone 6 is made up of only 2 ingredients. half redart and half XX saggar. it is very hard to break. i have had pieces fall 6 feet to concrete and not break or chip. it rings nicely, too. why does it work???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OffCenter Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 ok, jim, the recipe i have for a red clay that fires at cone 6 is made up of only 2 ingredients. half redart and half XX saggar. it is very hard to break. i have had pieces fall 6 feet to concrete and not break or chip. it rings nicely, too. why does it work???? The weathering and sedimentary process that resulted in Redart deposits also created a unique inverted chain crystal in that clay's phyllosilicate minerals that just happens to fit perfectly into the montmorillonite-smectite polly strands of colloid crystals in the more sedimentary XX Saggar producing partial reverse liquefaction. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 love your answer. thank you. hey, axe, you listening?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 love your answer. thank you. hey, axe, you listening?? Axe doesn't like 2 part clays........ ok, jim, the recipe i have for a red clay that fires at cone 6 is made up of only 2 ingredients. half redart and half XX saggar. it is very hard to break. i have had pieces fall 6 feet to concrete and not break or chip. it rings nicely, too. why does it work???? The weathering and sedimentary process that resulted in Redart deposits also created a unique inverted chain crystal in that clay's phyllosilicate minerals that just happens to fit perfectly into the montmorillonite-smectite polly strands of colloid crystals in the more sedimentary XX Saggar producing partial reverse liquefaction. Jim Jim are you being funny or is that real clayspeak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trina Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Ha, Jim I see you are finally reading that book I lent you....T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 but he did spell poly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Old lady Any pictures of that clay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 i just looked at all my own pots and found that there are 3 of them made in that clay. the only thing that shows the color is the bottom which had been waxed before glazing. i can take pictures but not post them here since i just don't seem to get them right. the color is the color of redart. plain red brown. make up 5 pounds and try it. it is very smooth but you could add grog since it is inert, (i think) and won't affect much more than tooth and color. i stopped using it because my hands were constantly stained by it. it is a really good clay. i used the cement mixer at Foxcross Pottery and just tossed in a bag of each, some water and turned it on. Del Martin had set up the cement mixer years ago and allowed me to use it. i took home 6 or 8 five gallon buckets of fresh clay each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigich22 Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Out of curiosity could you make that two part clay with Goldart as opposed to Redart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayjay Posted August 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 OK, thanks everyone, I'll test something! @ Old Lady: "here" is still in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndham Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 You could try gold art or any other clay but it might not vitrify at cone 6 or it might over fire at cone 6 and become a glaze puddle. Make up a sample test tile and fire it your next cone 6 firing and see what it looks like, then weight it and write this in a note pad or glaze book. Soak the test tile over night in water, take and towel dry it and weigh it again. Note the difference in weight if any, this is the of water absorption. If it's 1% or so that's vitrified the higher the water content the more pourous the clay. Testing is a lot of fun in both clay making and glazing Wyndham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Out of curiosity could you make that two part clay with Goldart as opposed to Redart?no, because Goldart is a stoneware clay. Redart is a low fire clay.Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OffCenter Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 love your answer. thank you. hey, axe, you listening?? Axe doesn't like 2 part clays........ ok, jim, the recipe i have for a red clay that fires at cone 6 is made up of only 2 ingredients. half redart and half XX saggar. it is very hard to break. i have had pieces fall 6 feet to concrete and not break or chip. it rings nicely, too. why does it work???? The weathering and sedimentary process that resulted in Redart deposits also created a unique inverted chain crystal in that clay's phyllosilicate minerals that just happens to fit perfectly into the montmorillonite-smectite polly strands of colloid crystals in the more sedimentary XX Saggar producing partial reverse liquefaction. Jim Jim are you being funny or is that real clayspeak Just another half-assed attempt at humor. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Jim, Dang! I was taking notes! Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndham Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 EPK is a high fire clay as is ball clay. Goldart can be used, the effects may not be the same as expected and may turn out uugly as a garbage pail kid but it will give a wealth of information whether good or bad on learning about glazing. Wyndham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Just another half-assed attempt at humor. Jim i figured. but i bit anyway....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 no, because Goldart is a stoneware clay. Redart is a low fire clay.Marcia are you saying you cant use a stone ware and low fire clay together in a clay body? or is that the case for a 2 part clay body only? is there literature rating dry material clay temps i know epk high lizella earthenware what about om4 and a host of other "usual suspects" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Broaden your horizons with these: http://lindaarbuckle.com/handouts/clays-and-clay-bodies.pdf http://claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-9%20(body%20profiles).pdf http://www.claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-2%20(mineralogy%20and%20clay).pdf http://www.claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-4%20(fillers).pdf http://claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-5%20(Water).pdf or just google Alfred university raw materials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Broaden your horizons with these: http://lindaarbuckle.com/handouts/clays-and-clay-bodies.pdf http://claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-9%20(body%20profiles).pdf http://www.claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-2%20(mineralogy%20and%20clay).pdf http://www.claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-4%20(fillers).pdf http://claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-5%20(Water).pdf or just google Alfred university raw materials I've had 1st one on ipad. Just haven't got around to studying... BIG thanks. Information dense material. It will have to wait till weekend my head is overloaded with classes at work. That s a clay 101 class in one post! Trying to decipher cryptic pop culture images...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OffCenter Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Broaden your horizons with these: http://lindaarbuckle.com/handouts/clays-and-clay-bodies.pdf http://claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-9%20(body%20profiles).pdf http://www.claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-2%20(mineralogy%20and%20clay).pdf http://www.claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-4%20(fillers).pdf http://claystore.alfred.edu/rawmats/presentations/Raw%20Mats/Class-5%20(Water).pdf or just google Alfred university raw materials I've had 1st one on ipad. Just haven't got around to studying... BIG thanks. Information dense material. It will have to wait till weekend my head is overloaded with classes at work. That s a clay 101 class in one post! Trying to decipher cryptic pop culture images...... Take some of those with a grain of salt. The first one is good except for a minor inaccuracy that only bothers me because I live in Lizella. Lizella Clay has never been mined by Burns' Brick. (That was Ocmulgee.) And while it is used as an earthenware it is more accurately described as a mid-range stoneware. But the second one, even though from the most high Alfred University, is out of date info of dubious accuracy which made me lose interest in the others. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yedrow Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Humor aside, are there montmorillanites in Sagger? Joel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndham Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Joel, briefly it's a bentonite. Here's the wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montmorillonite Wyndham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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