Had My First Sale Event This Weekend...and So Many Questions!

[kilningit]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to say hello and would love to hear 2 cents from veteran potters on how to navigate the commerce world.

I started ceramic 12 years ago, but recently became serious about being a potter and have been devoting full time to the pursuit including actually promoting my work.

This weekend I participated in my first sale event and have questions folks here undoubtedly have considered at some point.

 

1. How to find a market if your ceramic style is not the "hot style of the day". A real believer in listening to my own voice, I'm not interested in going the road of doing what every local potters are doing, but money need to be made.

 

2. Each cup (for example) takes me 3 hours to make and paint because the work is intricate underglazing work. No cups in the market sells for more than $35. How to reconcile the market value with the amount of work it takes? Should I compromise and just make speckled mugs with knuckle buster handles?

 

3. Continued from 2. If due to the labor required I absolutely must charge a premium, where would I start in promoting my work to those who will pay premium for the work?

 

4. Evolving styles: My work has never fit in one mold in terms of evolution over the years. When I started ceramics the work was sculptural and glazed via atmospheric firing with no other surface decoration. Now my works is completely illustrative and dictated more by surface than form. I feel "style" is self-made prison, unless it happens organically. Some potters are able to maintain the exact same style for years (hell decades), but this hasn't been the case for me -- I'm driven by rapid evolution of work and often it leads me down paths where current work resembles little the ones before.

So...say I have a name now. But 1 year down the line my work is completely different style. How do I meet the current clientele's needs with the need for evolution?

 

Thank you!

[JohnnyK]

Welcome to the forum, kilningit.

While I haven't started selling my wares yet, I recently attended a recent "Harvest Festival" in Sacramento to see what the potters were doing.

Among the hundreds of vendors there were only 4 potters selling their stuff and each had a different style. Of the four, there was one that I particularly liked because of his glaze effects...and he was from Oregon. However, this particular potter's booth was very busy apparently selling what people wanted. He had a variety of items, all functional. The other three potters were also selling functional pieces which were more "artistic" in their design and glazing. but their booths didn't have much activity as I passed by.

So, while your work is "evolving", but you still have to eat, I think you should do what is necessary to pay the bills, but at the same time make a greater effort to promote what you feel is your personal style.

I think MarkC might be in a much better position to give you the advice you seek.

Good luck with your endeavors!

JohnnyK

[Mark C.]

Let me tell you a story

I know a young potter who is trying to make a living at functional pottery sales . He has been doing shows about 5 years now and is really struggling. He gets into the best shows as his work is top notch. He spends endless hours on each piece and his system of working is super methodical and slow.

He has to charge top dollar and even then its questionable if he is making any money in my opinion. After 5 years he is realizing that he may not make it as sales are so slow for him even at the most prestigious shows. He cannot afford to wholesale as he needs every penny for the work-he cannot afford to let a gallery sell his work as he needs every penny.

 

My advice to you is and I do want to squash anyones creativity but the public does not recognize that you have spent 3 hours on a mug and usually will not pay for you to do so.

Potters working in the functional world need to be able to streamline the process and make it pay

I do not make knuckle buster handles and can sell mugs at about 1/2 of your 35$ price point.

Style as you say is evolving always -but to much change to fast will only confuse your customers as they develop over time

This is a complex question you posted-Your location will also help with some answers as the price point vary around the US and world-where are you on the globe?

I think finding a market for a 3 hour mug will be next to impossiable unless you settle for just a few sales. Which is fine but it will not work as a living.

I see a lot of folks try to step into this market and fail. The trick is making quality pots that people can afford . If you cannot do this you will need to remain in the low  volume sales of art work not functional wares. This my be your market and if so finding a niche will be a bit more difficult.

I am speaking only from experience in the matters selling only in the western states in the US for over 40 years -full time since 1976.

I think process streamlining and working smart is the hardest part for many and will keep many from moving into my field-it took me many many years to figure all this out. I make what people want to buy-its really that simple-but learning this is not for all especially executing it.

I have my own style and its evolved but my work will match what folks bought last year close enough. Its priced so you can afford to buy it and buy more of it anytime. People have a sense of whats pottery is worth and sky high prices in the end will only work in limited arenas .

If you want to get the maximum dollar figure for you work you will have to accept fewer sales and overall less money.

[Marcia Selsor]

Good advice from Mark. I would suggest you try to speed up you production. Could you get custome decals made for you painting designs? AS Mark points out, the public doesn't pay for the time involved so you need to reduce the time.

Marcia

[Pugaboo]

Mark and Marcia are correct about figuring out ways to speed up production. When I started I was hand painting everything on each piece and a hand painted mug ended up having to sell for a starting price of $50. Most people aren't going to go that high for a mug that is by an unknown potter, some well known potters can get and a lot more than that but not me.

 

I had to teach myself how to create the same look with less time. I use Mason Stain Transfers, Underglaze Transfers, Laser Transfers, paper stencils and silkscreening. These things are ALL made by me using my own designs, I do not get anything commercially made, designed or printed it's all done wth my own hands in my own studio. Using these methods means that now I can sell my large 20oz mugs for $30 and the medium 12oz mugs for $22. I still have the most expensive mugs locally but online I am pretty much average.

 

These are of course just my suggestions based on my own experience. Mark is probably the most successful functional potter I know so his input on how to make a living at selling pots is always taken seriously by me. Marcia does higher end artistic pieces at a level above what I think of as functional pottery so she is a good one for advice on the alternative unique ceramics. I personally have made and sold various forms of art for nearly 3 decades and have sold at festivals, galleries, gift shops, online, etc. I have done the $10,000 mural size paintings but at this point in my life I have had to choose a different path. That path incorporates all of my artistic background in the various mediums into what I think is the perfect functional art form... pottery. I am happier now than I have ever been selling my $11 Spoon Rests and $30 mugs and I AM selling more each month than the month before and each year more than the year before. I think of pottery as a journey and it's one I am excited by every day no matter what I type forms I am making.

 

Good luck and I hope you find the path to your own profitable happiness.

 

T

[Callie Beller Diesel]

The really good professional artists that I know in real life that are fully self-supporting, regardless of medium, have two lines of work. One that is the bread and butter, put the food on the table sort of items, and the items that feed their souls, but either take a very specific set of circumstances to sell, or are gallery/prestige pieces. The bread and butter pieces are often very desired in the marketplace because they're informed by the artists gallery work. The bread and butter pieces in turn allow the gallery work to be made because the artist isn't so stressed out about money that they can't be creative. If they don't have a bread and butter line, they teach, or have some alternate form of income. They all have multiple income streams. How much each artist relies on which income stream tends to vary from year to year.

[What?]

I can appreciate a well made piece of pottery. No matter how long or little it takes. Good pottery is just good pottery period. You have to ask yourself who you are making the items for? You, the public, other potters, gallery owners, collectors, etc...? For me I like to know who the maker of the item is. If it is a face to face transaction the better. I am guiltily of passing on a awesome piece of work at a steal of a price because I do not know who the maker is. I have purchased pottery knowing who the maker is and only because of that have paid a premium for something I really did not care for in the beginning just for the sake of have one of "their" pieces. I hope I am not the only one that does this. I will say having a presence on the internet and social media plays a big part in sales as far as I'm concerned. I know Mark he makes great wares and his booth gets traffic here in Arizona. He is the real deal and needs no internet following and wouldn't care for it anyhow; I suspect. The work and price speak for itself. He has a business that has thrived as long as I have been alive. I would love to see some of your work if you care to post some that would be great. You may get some other tips on streamlining your products.

[Mark C.]

Thanks for the kind words Reed-it was good to talk to you last weekend.

I'm drinking milk from your mug as I write this now.

You are so right about the internet following as my business is thriving without it as I built it long before the net.

I think pottery is best enjoyed be touch and feel anyway.The net is not that at all. How a mug  handle for example feels in your hand -there is only one way to get that and its holding a mug.

Knowing the maker and talking story is also great feedback for me as the customer is also keeping me in the loop of whats working well in my line.

I only make one line of work for sale.I gave up on high end gallery pots 3 decades ago and started making really money in ceramics.

I could care less about making and selling just a few expensive pots as thats not a sustainable goal for me in any sort of long run.

I do make salt wares for fun and end up later on selling a few for more $$ but it never considered when I make them . I only do salt pots for fun and since I only fire that kiln every now and then its not part of any income stream.

What has worked so well for me is doing the same shows for long periods and building my customer base. They are loyal and keep returning and its a growing market for me as its always getting bigger better.It takes years to get this going I feel. I do not do mailers anymore before shows or send e-mails to customers as I hate that myself in my inbox. I post my show schedule and those customers know where to look for it.

I treat pottery selling like I would like myself ,good pots sell themselves as What said above. 

I agree that a photo of you work would help Kilningit.

[GEP]

"Great artist" and "professional artist" are two different things. One isn't superior to the other, they're just different things. They require different skills and priorities. You can be one or the other. You can be both or neither. 

 

If you want to be both, draw a Venn diagram that defines "things that satisfy me artistically" and "things that others will buy" and you have to stay within the overlap area as much as possible. 

 

For me, this is not a suppression of creativity. It is an added dimension of creative challenge, to find solutions within tight parameters and real consequences. Personally, if I did not have the pressure of breadwinning to consider, I would be very bored. 

[Callie Beller Diesel]

This holiday season has been particularly difficult in my area, so I feel your pain of disappointing shows. I live in a major centre that is focused almost exclusively on oil production. When the price of oil is good, money flows like water. If you haven't been watching such things, the price of oil has been half what it was in recent years, and that money dries up fast. This year, we have a recorded unemployment rate of 10%, and a downtown vacancy rate of 25%. My sales this year are roughly half what they were last year, and many artists that I work shows with are in a similar boat. The people that have been most insulated from this have been those that have some form of effective, consistent communication with their customer base, wether that's some kind of email list, or social media following on whatever platform. Mark has enough years behind him, he doesn't have to rely on such things, but as new artists on the scene, we have to cultivate our audiences using whatever tools we are able to. The internet is a tool to be used at the moment, as is face time at shows, as are good galleries that work for you. Two years in, I can say that finding this mix is a very personal journey and you just have to try stuff.

[Stephen]

You say you're now devoting full time to pottery after 12 years but just did your first venue and you need to make a living.

 

I don't mean to be negative at all I just think you might want to step back and think this through if you need this to take off and generate a living right out of the box. Have you penciled stuff out with a spreadsheet realistically? What if every show for a while was like the one you just did, is that enough? How often do you need to do that a month to pay the bills? Every weekend is simply not realistic because of studio time needed to push through kiln loads. EOW is really tough with only one weekend work though.

 

While it might work, it might also be wishful thinking and if that's the case you will drain your finances quickly and place yourself in a tight situation if you can not afford that. If at all possible I would keep the day job (or some outside income stream going) while you do this initial work to find a product/price fit with the venues you are going to sell at. I try for $50 an hour for my studio time (zip for everything else) and not at the level to do the type of shows where I could sell a $150 mug. That $50 trims to $35 after expenses and it you counted my road/show time it becomes laughable but streamline processes are helping and adding consignment will further reduce outside of studio hours. For me at least I don't really ever see this as a big income job until I can add in other pottery related income streams such as a studio etc. Just paying my dues right now and constantly trying to step up my game. I figure if I can survive 5 years I will be a much better potter 3 years from now and other opportunities will come. Honestly, I live and breath pottery 7 days a week from rise until bed so its all consuming, for now.

 

Local venues rule when your starting out like me (only 2nd year in full time) because you can commute back and forth and keep cash out of pocket to a min. I have a travel trailer. When I hit the road its $30 a night plus half again gas to and from. If you are driving over one day use Walmart's for the in between stop. Can't do this at shows because the trailer needs to be somewhere during the show.  Remember to pencil in last day of show for RV space becuase it will end after checkout time. I don't really count the cost of the trailer because I would have it anyway. Mines pretty new and comfy but you can grab a cheap 2nd hand to start with. I don't count food as well because I eat where ever I am and with the kitchen in the RV its not more on the road than at home. Still it adds a couple hundred to road trips on top of booth fees and that ups my cash break even and break even on a cash basis still means the pots and studio time are gone and all you did was not have to add cash to do the show. I shutter to think of doing hotels and meals out and would simply not do them at the beginning level I am, too much risk for me. Doing a show and actually loosing raw cash will kill ya if you are trying to make a living and keep positive cash flow. Cash drain, inventory drain and time drain, ouch! None of the above is about taxes, how you calculate profit and loss and the movement of cash through your account are really two different things at this level of starting out. Its all about having enough cash to keep making and selling work the next month. If you are of limited means and determined to do this then get your monthly needs just as low as possible!

 

Hey I wish you luck. Pottery is a blast but ya really got to love it if you are going to try and make your monthly expenses making and selling it. Folks like Mark C have been doing it for decades and as such have found their market fit. For me at least its a work in progress. I also don't (yet) do high-end shows, just a lot of arts and craft fairs really and the higher-end shows might work for you with higher priced art focused work. Those show do cost more to do however and you can quickly get to and exceed a grand in expenses even on the cheap with the $500-$1000 booth fees a lot seem to charge. Even If i could get in to those venues I am not at the stage to risk that kind of money. 

 

Hope some of that rant helps! The folks above are all heavy hitters in the business so I would read each reply a few times and soak as much of their free advice as you can. It would cost a fortune to hire a group as prestigious as the one here for business consultation in the real world.

 

Good Luck,

[glazenerd]

The advice given above is the reality of making a living in pottery. However, every potter has that creative flair or techniques that draws them personally. So how do you market that personal/private interpretation of the clay arts? You label, market, and present them by different names. Such as Collectors Edition, Artist Edition, or Private Edition. Label them distinctly and separately; and set them apart on a shelf by themselves at shows. You will, over time generate a loyal base that will seek out these pieces for their own collections. The other option is to make pieces under two entirely different labels. Under one label, every day functional ware sold to the masses. The second label for artistic endeavors sold through galleries. Obviously the second label will take some effort to establish a market for.

 

Nerd

[Guest]

A lot of good advice given. In order to sustain your art you need to first sustain yourself. You can't have art without commerce.

 

Many successful artists I know have a working spouse who have health insurance that covers both of them.

[ChenowethArts]

I love the advice that offers on two types of work,  "One that is the bread and butter, put the food on the table sort of items, and the items that feed their souls".  With your experience, @kilningit, I would bet that there are items that you can produce quickly without sacrificing your personal creative mission...and if not, that might be a worthy consideration.  I am not there yet, but I am certainly enjoying the journey.  I produce limited quantities of what I consider high-end pieces for galleries because I enjoy the relationship and feedback that I get from the wonderful people I get to work with.  I do push the envelope on functional ware with the full understanding that not everyone is going to pay $40 (or even $30) for a mug...and if they do, it is likely because they know the story behind it, want something that is truly unique, trust that the quality is high, and likely have a better-than-average understanding of the process.

 

All of that means that I have to understand my market and adjust with some difficult decisions...for instance, there is a show next April where I will show (mostly) functional ware.  I have been to the show in the past and learned that high quality mugs sell for an average of $22.50 each.  OK, so the vast majority of what I display will be under $25, but that won't keep me from displaying focal/featured pieces that are double (or more) than that.  I am under no delusion that the higher priced items will sell, but I want buyers to see what I feel are exceptional pieces (those that I probably spent too much time on).  And, in due time, I would hope that every artist's reputation adds value to the work they do.

Good luck (and listen carefully to the excellent advice of @Mark C.

-Paul