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Ceramic Buttons Necessary For Fiber Kiln?


cabako

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Hi all,

 

I just happened to have a roll of 2" 8lb density, 2300 F rated ceramic wool laying around in the garage (who doesn't right?) so I decided to make an 8 cubic ft kiln.  I have cut 2x2' panels and now in the process of securing them to an expanded metal frame.  I have 18 gauge stainless steel wire.  My question is, could I thread the wire through the fiber and loop it back to tie it to the frame rather than using ceramic buttons to hold the fiber in place?  Or would the wire soften or melt because its not directly shielded in some manner?  I have read that people are using Nichrome wire and ceramic buttons for this but didn't have any on hand. 

 

Any input appreciated!

 

Thanks,

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I use kanthal wire sold by the foot at Archie bray Clay Business in Helena Montana.I thread the button and shove the ends through the expanded metal or whatever I am using for that kiln. I used sodium silicate to adhere fiber to flashing for my small raku test kiln.

I use buttons made of raku clay that I bisque.

http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/gallery/image/6940-buttonswires/

 

I have a roll of 2" 8# fiber in my kiln shed calling my name...really.I can send a photo.

 

 

Marcia

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I think I have at least 4 boxes of fiber laying around.Maybe 6? so yes everyone has a few boxes.

as far as stainless wire it will melt

as noted in above posts you need the right wire-meaning you need to buy it and use buttons-(you can make them or buy them)

stainless wire will melt.

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No they will have some stress on them-to much for greenware.

at the least the buttons have a back hole in them or a stem with hole depending on what is your final temp?

The closer the hole to the hot face the sooner they fail at high temp rake temps will not matter.

 

You never said what temp you will fire this kiln to?

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Hopefully cone 6...if possible.  Not sure if it could reach that temp with a single propane burner.  I have put heat shield flashing on the outside of the panels and have high temp brick base.  Might still be too much heat loss?  

Eventually I'd like to fire using biodiesel.  Last kiln was electric, haven't fired or thrown in years...Be gentle...

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I'm not familiar with US suppliers, but at least one supplies ceramic buttons (at a cost).

http://www.axner.com/ceramic-fiber-buttons.aspx

 

I hadn’t realised that two-hole buttons had drawbacks, which might be significant if your'e trying to fire as high as you can.

http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/topic/14941-ceramic-buttons-necessary-for-fiber-kiln/

Steve Mills on thu 8 aug 02

We use a 2 inch biscuit (the eating kind) cutter, lute a piece of clay
to the back of the resulting disc, and bore a single hole through that,
in effect a ceramic *blind* button. The *2 holes through the face*
variety can create a heat path to the outside via the holding wires, the
blind variety can't.

 

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They should be bisque. See if there is a kind potter in your area who would do this for you

I have been using the handmade buttons for decades. The 2 hole buttons tend to crack in half. The blind hole button as Steve suggested last much longer. As for going to Cone 6, you may want to double up on the insulation.

I can touch the outside surface of my raku kiln at 1900, but I am not sure what it would do at 2260.

Check the thermal quality of the fiber. Usually it is backed up by brick in commercial kilns.For such a small kiln, you might try mixing a refractory castable for an outer shell..

 

Marcia

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Hopefully cone 6...if possible.  Not sure if it could reach that temp with a single propane burner.  I have put heat shield flashing on the outside of the panels and have high temp brick base.  Might still be too much heat loss?  

Eventually I'd like to fire using biodiesel. .

 

Several students have used the school home-made-single-layer-fiber raku kiln to go to ~ cone 5 with two low pressure natural gas burners.   It is about 2 ft diameter and maybe 2.5 tall.  tried it on a lark and all was well.  did not take long . started after noon done before 4.   The buttons were made with  bisqued cone 10 stoneware.  

 

"try it, u'll like it!"  (or so said the Alka-Seltzer commercial of yester year.

 

You could hold the fiber in place with bailing wire for the first firing , bisque the buttons in that firing, then use the buttons to wire a  more  permanent installation. The buttons would be no different than cone packs in a regular firing. 

 

LT

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Great info all!  Magnolia I think I'll try your suggestion.  If the wires can withstand just one firing then I will make the buttons.  I was planing on making the loops very wide and attaching them against the grain so as not to damage the wool. Maybe doubling up the wire as well.  And Mark I think I'll try to make cone 10 porcelain button with wool behind it which is a great idea.  Ive read there is some Cone 10 porcelein that is still quite strong when fired to cone 6.  Maybe that is the most robust option. 

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I built one years ago with no buttons and just high temp wire. It's maybe 10 years old and has 100 firings on it and the wire and fiber look like they're brand new. I didn't wrap and twist it, rather bent 90s in it to go through the hole and then another 90 in the opposite direction. What this does is spread the load out over a greater area and uses the wire "spring tension" to hold the fiber to the wall. In other words, I bent it like a staple but instead of the staple closing inward towards itself, it bends outwards at 90 degrees.

 

It's quick, easy, dependable  and breaks all the rules.

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I used home made buttons the door of a large car kiln and on a hinged door of a sprung arch kiln that I built at the university. They were  very similar to Marks's buttons.

I also used kanthal high temp wire. These kilns were fired frequently to ^6 reduction, sometimes twice per week as the semesters got busy. They 

lasted for years.Kanthal wire is not that expensive. I think it is worth the price. You can buy it buy the foot.

Marcia

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Panel "stapeled" to frame...

 

 

 I did mine opposite of what you have. The "open" end of the staple and legs is in the firing chamber radiating outward maybe 1 1/2" from the hole. I don't think it'll make that big of a difference other than if your holes are 2" apart, then only 2" of the fiber will have support whereas with mine it's a total of two 1 1/2" areas 2" apart. Theoretically, my way would spread support out over a larger area thus reducing the tendency of the fiber to sag; at least that was the thought process.

 

I don't know why, i just don't like the idea of buttons.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update,

 

"Kiln" & buttons made.  Bowl to hold buttons and stamps etc during firing is drying. Probably bisque fire this week.

Did a test fire of the kiln, it easily ramps up to 1600 F no problem, I have to crack the lid in the back for a draft.  I got it as far as 1900F before having to leave.  Took about 30 minutes.  It will be very tricky to get a steady ramp and hold any temp.  It also cools off rather quickly...I think... Anyway, will be interesting during glaze fire.  I am hoping the white ceramic tube in the corner is where the flame hits and spreads the heat...I don't know why the pics are sideways. 

 

 

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