Biglou13 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 So I have a lead on a 60 cubic foot car kiln used. Any cons to buying used kiln. Here is my thoughts on dismantle. Draw trace arch curve, Build arch form. Brace arch form to ceiling, Number all bricks dismantle roof /arch, then walls etc etc... Reverse process to build.??? What's a decent price said used kiln With furniture and burners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Pros/Cons, Price . . . all depends on: Age and use of kiln (how many firings)? Commercial or built from scratch? Condition of bricks and burners? Brick arch or poured form? Etc. Hard to say with limited info provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Sometimes people keep the form that the arch was built on. It's worth asking. Supposing that it's a hand built kiln with bricks in good shape, you have a handle on how to move it there. You might not have to go as far as numbering the wall bricks, but it's a good idea for the arch. It's a good idea to take lots of pictures and measurements, especially around things like burner ports, chimney inlets, bag wall height, and dampers. As for value, how much would something brand new cost in your area? And how close to new is this kiln? Will you get enough use out of it to justify the price? Have you got a place to put this kiln right away, or will it be disassembled for the forseable future? When I was asking similar questions, it came down to "what is it worth to YOU?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Yes lots of cons on a used kiln 1st is this a homemade kiln-I assume so describe this kiln a little better -heres a little what I would need to know as well as few thoughts to cons 1-A 60 cubic car kiln is huge for a single potter mine is 35 cubic and I cannot imagine one needing a 60 unless you have a few potters working.To long betweeen cycles 2-what do the bricks look like?? crackes ? K 23s or K 26 or 28ths-all tese refer tpo soft bricks. 3-what age is kiln? how many fires on it? 4 -what shape is steel supports like and car?? 5-what is the burner system? controls? propane or natural gas 6-whats the chimminey made from- 7-are the bricks in great shape and you can make a smaller kiln from parts??? 8-if the kiln is cemented at all the soft bricks will get distroyed taking it apart 9-is the arch made of straights or arch bricks? 10-you will need to jack up the from a tad before taking arch apart-you need to plan on some of the move will make some of the bricks unusable even in the best circumstances. 11-what the inner dimensions?? 12-whats the furniture like-shelves flat? what are they made from? 13-whats this kiln been up to as to kept up-?dry? what was produced in it? 1-Pros cost can be cheap 2-materials could be made into another smaller kiln-you cut the car down and make a smaller more usable size kiln 3-you learn a lot-after taking down many kilns-you get right away what to look for in terms of condition of bricks 4-you have lots of time and a strong back and a good truck-pass if any of these do not ring true. 5-I few this a s a materials purchase in the form of a kiln now but once moved ita pile of stuff-always keep this in mind. Most of these deals only pencil out if the kiln goes for a song as far as I'm concerned-most are old and beat with old furniture . Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJR Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 The crucial area is the arch. Usually made from a combination of #1 arch bricks and straights.You need to mark the first row at least and then assemble in the correct order. Ask the seller if he has the arch form. You will need one to jack up and take down the arch. No need to number all of the rows of bricks. Just make a drawing with the number of rows, burner ports, flue channel etc. Mark is right. This is a huge kiln. Think about making it shorter, but same width. If soft bricks are cemented, you are out of luck for saving them. TJR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 As mentioned by Mark and Tom, is it manufactured or homemade? IS it on a liftable structure so a forklift could move it? Bracing arch and walls is essential. What is the condition of the brick? Much to think about. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I wouldn't touch it. Way too big, and way too much work to deal with. A lot of the bricks will likely not be reusable, so you'll have additional investment there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo_heff Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Also : is it covered in a layer of kaowool ? old kaowool = very bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 if you go for it, use a can of contrasting color spray paint to mark the arch on a template. the overspray on some of the bricks will mark them as part of the arch and not part of a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Haven't seen it yet may go Wednesday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 That is a beast of a kiln.It will dismantle your wallet when you fire it. Looks like you could cut the car in 1/2 and the kiln to make a smaller size. My car is about 6 inch spare and then 36 inches for 3 12x 24 shelves-a great size for production work. You may only want 2 12 x24 shelzes. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Lots of fiber on there. You'll need to wear a mask the whole time. Looks like homemade pipe burners. I wouldn't mess with those, just build a couple of power burners. Are there any safety systems? I don't see any pilots. Still wouldn't touch it. Maybe buy the bricks, but forget the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Consider it a pile of materials-so inspect them for conditional flaws- Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 How do you judge quality of soft brick? Owner says lower part is of kiln is hard brick. Chimney above roof is ceramic chimney flue/s May go tomorrow or fri to look see. I'm told they are Alfred burners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 How do you judge quality of soft brick? Owner says lower part is of kiln is hard brick. Chimney above roof is ceramic chimney flue/s May go tomorrow or fri to look see. I'm told they are Alfred burners. You can look to see how cracked they are -stick your knife into one-Try ro snap or crumble one-old ones are crumbly The hard bricks are the 1st two layers of car in photo as well as the layers up tpo and just over the burner ports. Alfred burners are home made pipe burners-looks that you use a blower with to create forced air burner-that shop vac in photo could be that air source Make sure that none of the bricks are mortared becuase soft bricks onece glued to not come apart and get reused.You can chisel and srape hard brick mortar but not soft bricks-this is a key point for the never done this before folks. This kiln dismanlete is a big job Make a list of questions and get all the answers before going there. ask how many fires on the kiln and to what temps and what K factor are the soft bricks???? k23 K26 K28 The carbide shelves look huge like 14x 28s? the photo is a bad angle top see them well Was this some sort of production business?? of just a over egar potter? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 mark, the size of this kiln seems to be the same size Del Martin and David Norton use. del fires pretty often and sells out from his home studio on the potomac river right away. david is located in round hill, va and sells in the torpedo factory. david built his car kiln with removable tracks so he can use wheeled carts to load and unload supplies using the same slab of clay. he also uses a sand seal thermal barrier. if you ever get to the D.C. area, you should visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Lou What happened to the kiln dismantle? A=great deal I have spent a week moving bricks and my back is aching B- they where in really bad shape and I passed C-still thinking about it D-blew it off and never looked at it. E-something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Lou What happened to the kiln dismantle? A=great deal I have spent a week moving bricks and my back is aching B- they where in really bad shape and I passed C-still thinking about it D-blew it off and never looked at it. E-something else F- Zombie apocalypse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Taking down ANY high fire kiln is a bit more dangerous dust wise than building it in the first place (which is not "safe" to start with). That is because the brick materials are deliberately refractory...... as little glassy phase as possible develops .... and than means that any free silica in the bricks is slowly changing from its normal state to the cristobalite form of silica when the kiln is at elevated temperatures. That's FAR more dangerous stuff to breathe. Fiber, as Tim mentions, .... really bad when it has been repeatedly fired... even on the relatively cold side of the interface. Because I do kiln building work all the time... and take down a lot of old kilns....... 1.) You need to plan the best demo ventilation of the general space you can. Moving lots of air in that interior space, and make sure that the exhaust does not get back into the makeup air. 2.) You need coveralls that can be washed (separate from home laundry) or disposable. Hair coverings too. 3. Then ....... (after making sure you have a P-100/HEPA filtered respirator that FITS) is to get out a hose and soak all of the refractories down before you start to disassemble it. It won't hurt them. A certain percentage of the brick refractories will be broken. The older the kiln and the worse it was built to start with... the higher the percentage will be. I'd just add the fiber there to the landfill in sealed plastic bags (if you are not in Europe.... so far... you can do that for legal disposal). To me that looks like a pile of refractories to re-use ... rather than an existing kiln to rebuild as it sits. Price accordingly. Burners of limited value. They work at a certain level.... by let's say 1970'sd standards...... but very poor turn down ratio and very poor primary air entrainment. Form a day when gas was CHEAP compared to today. best, .................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 didnt see kiln yet got busy with kiln building class at local college aka .... zombie apocylypse..... ate up all my spare time.... i already have torn my hands... so no clay time foir a week or so... no spare time until spring term is over.... oh yeah and the full time job...... did find space for it (kiln) may go see next week if time allows and if it is still available ps she did keep the arch form! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Kiln building=leather gloves Potters protect the hands-second nature Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 POSITIVESbricks look goodkiln was rebuilt mostly with soft brick , lower courses and chimney and bag wall all hard9 inch minimum all aroundused smallest allen wrench did not penetrate soft brick.100’s of posts in great shapeabout 75+ shelves in great shape!approx 30 firings on newer soft brick, was mostly hard brick prior to re -dowe can pic through hard brick yard! (she want enough for above ground pit)welding and metal work is part of kiln building class I'm in!!!im sure i can design better car system, and burnersfound 2 homes for itthere will be excess hard brick (for my collection for wood fire kin) NEGATIVESexcept for four corners and car metal is shot, including rails for car.8 burners are crap … rusted . was alfred design basically 1inch sliding tube in front of or orifice.will need redesignchimney and box have butter on them but not mortared! looks too big ill need to calculate new flue and chimneybrick chimney goes to kiln roof height then its large chimney liner x 2im thinking 3 people 2-3 FULL day tear down. 3-4 pallets,small box truckshe has 500 gal tank. she says it takes just under half for 16 hour hot cone 10????!!!!will need more than $ 500 to rebuild and install palette and move!Mark how much gas $ wise and gallon wise to fire 35 cu ft kiln to 10? more pictures soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 200 gallons of propane to fire it!!!!!!! Crazy. That is the impact of the Alfred pipe burners. Back in the 70's, the era of those home-made burners heyday, 200 gallons of propane was cheap....... now... not so much. I don't use my gas kiln to glaze fire anymore..... that's all on wood... but for a 40 cubic footer...... using top of the line true ventrui burners...... I use to use about 40 gallons of propane to cone 10. About 1/10th of that 500 gallon tank (that holds 400 gallons of liquid). And those venturis are not as clean burning as a forced air system could be. best, ..............john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 My kilns are natural gas way cheaper to fire. I do not have any equivalent charts-I have not specced my fire costs in years but can look back and check bills and log book-might be easier on me just to check the meter next fire. That will be in Febuary as I'm on my clay break doing taxes and pruning and new recirculating hot water system-And as an added bonus I'm replacing my forced air heater under small crawl space as it died from a power surge after 25 years-spent parts of the last 4 days under house.I cannot wait to get back to JUST clay work. Speaking of old burner I have a set of 4 of those old Alfred ones under house-you pay the shipping if you need them-As John said they are energy HOGS oink oink. I suggest good venturi burners and natural draft kilns with tall chimneys to make them suck. Mark PS if your working with Zombies you will need more as they are SLOW walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Here (mixing "chamber") back part of burner http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/gallery/image/4907-image/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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