Building a Genesis Log File Grapher website for me and community - need feedback!

[jay_klay_studio]

5 hours ago, PeterH said:

How do you determine the start-time of the segments? Is it just when the end-temperature is reached in the CVS file?

PS Minor point, but you might try changing the line colours to additive ones, which might show overlapping lines more clearly. Perhaps cyan & magenta, as some real-world yellows are a bit dodgy. The idea has some history in statistical presentations.

 

@PeterH Actual start of a segment in the graph is when the controller sends the series of "start ramp" events. But I've also programmed it to start a segment on the "skip step" event as well, as that's the only indication that the next segment started as well. Good idea about the colors, I'll see if I can make the line semi-transparent, which is the only way that would work.

 

Update, tried the colors and from an aesthetic sense I like the old ones, but from a purely scientific perspective, I dig the extra info you get here:

Edited December 7, 2023 by jay_klay_studio

[jay_klay_studio]

4 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

Much better! I would suggest to see percentage output from the controller if possible,  by zone would be great, so at a glance I can tell if the kiln is under powered at some point or the controller PID needs some calibration and tweaking s practical.

@Bill Kielb I'm on the same wavelength, I was planning on providing something to show the out# percentage, but not sure what the best format would be. I could see this going one of three ways, let me know what you think might be most helpful:

1. Average percentage output for each zone for each segment (segment data will be in a table, so there'd be a column for each average out#)
2. A new line(s) on the graph with a second Y-axis. The library I use for the graph has support for this kind of "biaxial" graph (screenshot), though not sure if it'd be too much to look at at one time. Could be something that you could turn on and off, that would be easy enough to do. (idea suggested by @Dick White)
3. I could also just include the out# for each T&C in the tooltip when you hover on the graph. This would only give you a reading in the moment, though, and might be hard to draw conclusions on.

[PeterH]

The actual and target lines are made up of sections for each of the controller segments. So we have a lag-free target sections and with-lag actual sections. Naturally the two lines get progressively out of sync if any lag occurs.

If you move the start-point of the each target section to the clock-time that that segment actually started you get a much clearer picture of what's actually going on, segment by segment.
... my straight-line approximation from a digitised image.

With the gaps in the target-line representing the lag in that segment.

Decoration: you might want to embolden the lag-periods on the x-axis, or shade a region of the xy plane.

PS Here's a graph from my most recent firing (where it's clear that my kiln struggled to maintain ramp at peak but otherwise was pretty close): 
From this presentation segment 5 may be a bigger issue than segment 6.

Edited December 7, 2023 by PeterH

[Bill Kielb]

4 hours ago, jay_klay_studio said:

I could also just include the out# for each T&C in the tooltip when you hover on the graph. This would only give you a reading in the moment, though, and might be hard to draw conclusions on.

I think I would like it in the tool tip but not knowing what data are available may not be the best choice so I will review the Genesis tonight. This is a cool project, just wondering if a universal excel template might suffice. No matter - nice project.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Bill Kielb

[neilestrick]

5 hours ago, jay_klay_studio said:

Average percentage output for each zone for each segment (segment data will be in a table, so there'd be a column for each average out#)

An average of the segment wouldn't mean much because the output can vary greatly over a segment. For instance, my glaze firing schedule has a ramp that goes from 200F to 1965F. Output will vary from 3% to 100%. I think the output % would only be meaningful if you also knew the temp and ramp at any given point. 

[PeterH]

13 hours ago, jay_klay_studio said:

Update, tried the colors and from an aesthetic sense I like the old ones, but from a purely scientific perspective, I dig the extra info you get here:

Obviously your choice, I just thought you might want to evaluate the alternative.

Have to admit in this case it's a bit like looking at a 3D anaglyph without the coloured glasses!

[PeterH]

Straight-line approximation to with-lag  format with some decorations. Lags shown both on the x-axis and by shading on the xy plane.

Edited December 8, 2023 by PeterH

[Bill Kielb]

I think I would be very pleased to know the segment rate and after observing the delta graphically (or numerically) over time I would have a decent sense of how fast can this kiln go with reasonable accuracy and it would also be a strong indicator of element condition at peak temperature for me. Maybe less complex would be best for me and at a glance indicator of trend most useful.

[Clay17]

16 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

just wondering if a universal excel template might suffice.

It's doable.

I did this about five years ago out of curiosity when the kiln only had 5 firings on its elements. The two lines are showing each TC. 

I could have added segment data along with top temp reached at the time But I was more interested to see if the two TCs were in sync.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Clay17
spelling

[jay_klay_studio]

10 hours ago, PeterH said:

Straight-line approximation to with-lag  format with some decorations. Lags shown both on the x-axis and by shading on the xy plane.

@PeterH I know it's not quite the same, but I'm working on a way to select a segment to horizontally align target with actual. Meaning, you select segment 6, and the graph lines shift so that the start of segment 6 is aligned (but the lines are unbroken). I agree that visualizing the delta in time between each segment could be handy, but IMO, it's a little confusing to see the target graph line broken up like that. 

[jay_klay_studio]

4 hours ago, Clay17 said:

It's doable.

I did this about five years ago out of curiosity when the kiln only had 5 firings on its elements. The two lines are showing each TC. 

I could have added segment data along with top temp reached at the time But I was more interested to see if the two TCs were in sync.

@Clay17 @Bill Kielb I am terrible with Excel but looks like it's totally doable. Since I build website for a living, this is a lot easier for me, and as an added benefit is easier to share with folks who want it. But I'm sure you could do just as well with Excel.

[PeterH]

1 hour ago, jay_klay_studio said:

I know it's not quite the same, but I'm working on a way to select a segment to horizontally align target with actual. Meaning, you select segment 6, and the graph lines shift so that the start of segment 6 is aligned (but the lines are unbroken). I agree that visualizing the delta in time between each segment could be handy, but IMO, it's a little confusing to see the target graph line broken up like that. 

Personally I like it because it's a reminder that a lag-less model doesn't fit the data there.

[jay_klay_studio]

All of this feedback is great, thanks everyone. I think I'm getting close to where I want the graph to be if anyone's interested in fiddling: https://www.fire-graph.com/

Align segment, and multi-file upload are still on the todo list. As is the data dump below the graph. But it's getting there.

Edited December 9, 2023 by jay_klay_studio

[Clay17]

Genesis 1 Controller

 

[PeterH]

6 hours ago, Clay17 said:

Genesis 1 Controller

If you are going to plot the planned and actual points on the same x-axis without registering them I think you need to show both "Actual start of segment X" and "Planned start of segment X" to clarify the situation somewhat.

After pondering on your previous comments I've changed my suggested plot slightly, and the rationale quite a bit.

Using this presentation (with or without the shading)

For segments without a lag there is isn't a dogleg. For segments with a lag there is a dogleg.

In either case the green line within that segment corresponds exactly to the "target" temperature profile actually produced by the controller for that segment in this firing.

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by PeterH

[jay_klay_studio]

@PeterH @Clay17 @neilestrick @Dick White @Bill Kielb Just "finished" the site (or at least the major features). I'm sure there are some bugs to be ironed out, but so far it's working for me and for the files you all sent me (many thanks).

If any of you guys end up playing around with it and find any issues, let me know. Planning on trying to get the word out in the next few weeks and want to catch as many bugs as I can. 

www.fire-graph.com

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by jay_klay_studio