jay_klay_studio

I got one this year partly because of the ability to export log files. But they're incredibly hard to read. I'm a software engineer so I made a website to extract and graph the info (and then got really carried away). Menu on the home page has a demo feature if you want to give it a spin. www.fire-graph.com

@PeterH @Clay17 @neilestrick @Dick White @Bill Kielb Just "finished" the site (or at least the major features). I'm sure there are some bugs to be ironed out, but so far it's working for me and for the files you all sent me (many thanks). If any of you guys end up playing around with it and find any issues, let me know. Planning on trying to get the word out in the next few weeks and want to catch as many bugs as I can. www.fire-graph.com

I know this thread is a bit old, but I had the same question. And ended up joining the Ky Mudworks Clay & Glaze Group on facebook. Typed in White Bear and Iceman in the search box and there are like 20 threads comparing the two with some really great opinions.

All of this feedback is great, thanks everyone. I think I'm getting close to where I want the graph to be if anyone's interested in fiddling: https://www.fire-graph.com/ Align segment, and multi-file upload are still on the todo list. As is the data dump below the graph. But it's getting there.

@Clay17 @Bill Kielb I am terrible with Excel but looks like it's totally doable. Since I build website for a living, this is a lot easier for me, and as an added benefit is easier to share with folks who want it. But I'm sure you could do just as well with Excel.

@PeterH I know it's not quite the same, but I'm working on a way to select a segment to horizontally align target with actual. Meaning, you select segment 6, and the graph lines shift so that the start of segment 6 is aligned (but the lines are unbroken). I agree that visualizing the delta in time between each segment could be handy, but IMO, it's a little confusing to see the target graph line broken up like that.

@Bill Kielb I'm on the same wavelength, I was planning on providing something to show the out# percentage, but not sure what the best format would be. I could see this going one of three ways, let me know what you think might be most helpful: Average percentage output for each zone for each segment (segment data will be in a table, so there'd be a column for each average out#) A new line(s) on the graph with a second Y-axis. The library I use for the graph has support for this kind of "biaxial" graph (screenshot), though not sure if it'd be too much to look at at one time. Could be something that you could turn on and off, that would be easy enough to do. (idea suggested by @Dick White) I could also just include the out# for each T&C in the tooltip when you hover on the graph. This would only give you a reading in the moment, though, and might be hard to draw conclusions on.

@PeterH Actual start of a segment in the graph is when the controller sends the series of "start ramp" events. But I've also programmed it to start a segment on the "skip step" event as well, as that's the only indication that the next segment started as well. Good idea about the colors, I'll see if I can make the line semi-transparent, which is the only way that would work. Update, tried the colors and from an aesthetic sense I like the old ones, but from a purely scientific perspective, I dig the extra info you get here:

@Dick White I would defer to people who've been on the forum for awhile. I will say, however, that despite the number of entries in a log file, CSVs are small by nature. This file that I'm looking at has somewhere around 10,000 points of data (cells), but the file is only 33kb (which is smaller than any image one might be inclined to post). If you want to email me to be safe, my address is joshua@young.net

Sorry that's what I meant. Should have said post the "set" of multi-log files.

@Piedmont Pottery I didn't know that multiple files was a thing! I'm new to the Genesis world (just got my first and it's a 2.0). And I'd love to be able to support other generations if possible. It'd actually be really helpful to know if Bartlett has adjusted their log file format much since the first generation. That might give me some clue as to how long this tool will be useful before I need to do some maintenance to keep up with log file format changes... I don't suppose you could attach one of your multi-log files here?

Yeah, the skip here really skewed the graph on this one. I have a plan for fixing that (see my response to Dick above). The confusing thing about the previous image I posted is that segments 2-7 took longer (especially segment 6 to peak), because my elements are worn as Dick mentioned. But because I skipped about 75% of the candle, it shifted the "actual" graph line back by about 1.5 hours. You'll notice that it's slower rate, though, means that it's only about an hour off from the target at peak temp (so, not taking into account the skip, the actual firing took about 30 minutes longer). Here's a graph from my most recent firing (where it's clear that my kiln struggled to maintain ramp at peak but otherwise was pretty close):

A normal firing might still be helpful if you have one handy! I only have one TC and one zone, no fan control, and the only custom program I've input was fairly simple.

@Dick WhiteDo you have a log file with multiple TCs you could send me? I only have one TC. Also, in your opinion, would it be helpful to be able to graph each TC separately as a line on the chart? Or, would it make more sense to be able to choose which TCs are used and the average temp from those TCs used for the single line? Is this the "out#" column? I had wondered about that. It does appear that when I start to drop away from the target ramp that my out#'s are at 100, which makes sense. Not sure the relationship between TCs and Zones, but I'm guessing there's not a 1:1 there. I think that my elements are actually worn, and my last 200 degree ramp is off by about 20 deg/hr, which has been causing me to overfire. Kind of the original impetus to make this tool. But I hear you on the reduced utility of the two lines when they start to deviate, especially as the end of the firing is the most crucial and is where you'd have the largest X deviation. I'm thinking based on your comment to provide a little dropdown menu that can align start segments (default to start of firing), so that say you select segment 6, and the graph moves the two lines so that they start at the same time. This way, it'd be easy to tell differences in ramp, and could put you back on track in case you skipped a segment like I did. So far, the "actual" ramp rate I have calculated is based off of an entire segment. It's essentially just the temp diff between the start of the segment and end, divided by the no. of hours (based on adding up the half minute ticks for a segment in the log). Would it be more helpful to have the "actual" calculated ramp in smaller increments than just the entire segment?

Yeah the nice thing about this chart library is that when you hover, you get that tooltip (floating box in screenshot) and a vertical line (and two dots on either graph line) that shows you how they line up. But I agree that the most important info here is the delta of target vs actual (other than when you skip a segment of course). I was planning on including an average ramp (deg / hour) deviation for each segment in the data table. But graphing it might be more helpful!