Precise application of Mayco Gold Lustre

[MKG001]

I splurged on a tiny jar of Mayco OG805 luster and want to use it to create precise designs on a pot with a glossy glaze. I am thinking of using a Cricut to cut an adhesive vinyl stencil for this.  Does this sound like a good approach?

Thank you!

[Bill Kielb]

My experience, it’s hard to keep it from flowing under the stencil so depending on size and shape this may prove to have its issues. Precise brushwork is a thing with multiple coats over the top. Real automotive pinstripe masking tape does allow for very precise lines, especially1/8” and will keep the media from flowing beyond its boundary. Gold needs to be fairly thick (else fires ugly) so often multiple coats are the answer for me which often means more freehand work. If it’s tape masked, then no worries for me.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Bill Kielb

[Roberta12]

2 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

My experience, it’s hard to keep it from flowing under the stencil so depending on size and shape this may prove to have its issues. Precise brushwork is a thing with multiple coats over the top. Real automotive pinstripe masking tape does allow for very precise lines, especially1/8” and will keep the media from flowing beyond its boundary. Gold needs to be fairly thick (else fires ugly) so often multiple coats are the answer for me which often means more freehand work. If it’s tape masked, then no worries for me.

@Bill Kielb Have you found that a certain kind of brush works better than others?

[Bill Kielb]

@Roberta12 - I have not, standard art brushes that you prefer to paint with probably. filberts, flats, liner, limited use of mops, daggers, etc..  Typically synthetic - nothing special really. More about what you would use to paint. Donna Dewberry brushes were cheap at one point. Paul Lexington has a decent book: “ China paint and Overglaze” finding the right medium to match your preference probably most time consuming. Clove and lavender!

Stuff seems to seep under stencils due to adhesion and cohesion. The pin stripe masking tape is an easy way to stop this movement for me.

[Rae Reich]

Adhesive backed cricut sheets should work. Press edges down securely with a wooden tool. Don’t touch the surface with anything after cleaning with alcohol, especially fingers. Be patient and let it dry well between coats. Definitely do a test design or two before committing. That tiny bottle will go far, even with multiple coats. 

[Callie Beller Diesel]

If this doesn’t work, and you have a lot of pieces with these designs that you want to make, Milestone does offer custom decal runs. They silkscreen their gold decals, so the lines are nice and crisp.

[MKG001]

Does the unfired gold get messed up when you peel back the stencil? I have a picture in mind that the edges of the gold will come up.

 

[Rae Reich]

6 hours ago, MKG001 said:

Does the unfired gold get messed up when you peel back the stencil? I have a picture in mind that the edges of the gold will come up.

 

Shouldn’t. Dried oil can still feel tacky, but doesn’t create a film like paint or become crumbly like dried glaze. 
Test, test, test. 

[Denice]

I have done a lot of colorful majolica with black liner around the design.   I prefer the liner bushes,  I have several different ones,  thicker, thinner, shorter longer.   If I am not getting the right flow I try a different liner.   I tried using a dagger that I bought at a auto supply store,  It didn't work well the oxides mix I was using.  I  could work well with the metallic  glaze,   if you buy one talk to someone who uses them.   Bigger car show have strippers working at them,  they use a dragger to paint stripes on show cars.     Denice

[MKG001]

Sorry for ignorance-- what is a dragger? :-)

[Hulk]

Denice wrote "dagger" earlier in the post.
Pinstriping brush styles include "sword" and dagger*.

There are natural hairs and synthetic fibers, many handle variations, profiles, length...
Watching those who can really handle the stripe brush is an education!

fwiw, I use plain masking tape, which makes for a clean/sharp line. Locking the edge down is key - where there's no dust or residue underneath, and the edge is firmly adhered to the substrate. The .7" wide is easy to handle and allows for a wide (sloppy) brush. For curves, I use a better quality/brand masking tape - which cuts cleaner, bends better, and sticks well - and cut strips to the widths I want. The bargain stuff doesn't perform as well, doesn't cut nicely and doesn't bend/curve as well.
It's a preference, and I'll admit it's not just that I've used masking tape for many years in the paint trade, no, I'm also cheap!
That said, I might try the special auto tape one o' these days! I did some taping for a friend's friend who was into auto body - we used 3M half inch tape for all but the curviest parts.
 

*for example, see https://letterheadsignsupply.com/ - there are links for brushes on the main page.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Hulk
in <> for

[Kelly in AK]

Veering slightly off topic, but I have a special place in my heart for Mack brushes @Hulk. My summertime alter ego is “sign painter,” no one makes a better brush for that. 

[MKG001]

Following up on this... when firing the luster to cone 018, do I need to heat slowly through the cristabolite (420F) and quartz (1060 F) transitions? Or are these not an issue, given that my pieces were already fully fired at cone 6?

 

Thank you!

[Bill Kielb]

Generally China paint / lusters  go as fast as you can. Truth be told, Cristobalite is just plain hard to have and everything goes through Quartz inversion. Hundreds of thousands of pots each day up and down slow, fast, unevenly.  Clay is tough, this is just something that happens. For the most part good clay theory to know but rarely affects typical potters.  

Edited July 3, 2023 by Bill Kielb

[MKG001]

Fantastic, thank you!

[Callie Beller Diesel]

I want to qualify what Bill said somewhat. If your lustre firing is a third or even fourth firing for the piece, unless your clay body is unusual going the usual slow pace through quartz inversion will be fine. If you are making pieces out of a dense white talc body that have been fired 5+ times,  that’s when keeping crystobalite formation in the back of your mind becomes relevant. It’s a consideration for those who layer lots of underglaze/glaze/decals/china paint in one piece.

[Bill Kielb]

On 7/4/2023 at 5:11 PM, Callie Beller Diesel said:

unless your clay body is unusual going the usual slow pace through quartz inversion will be fine.

Yes anything is possible, but I have never really found that special slow speed for quartz inversion. Fast conefire programs in the Bartlett controller  can be anywhere from 150f to 570f per hour. Slow speeds 100f - 400f per hour. Since thousands of pots go through this daily (often fairly unevenly) I just have never found a credible  “slow” speed. On cool down most are subject to whatever speed the kiln goes naturally. I guess if you find a speed that works for you, use it.  As far as crystobalite, that’s quite a list of things before one starts thinking about it. I guess in the end, do what works for you but clay is really tough stuff. I suspect quartz inversion and crystobalite likely get blamed for lots of things. One of my instructors would say:”stop blaming the kiln, make better stuff”. In my experience I have found that to be reasonably pertinent.

[MKG001]

Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice. I'm happy with the result of my first experiment with gold luster! 

For the record, I heated at 500F/h to 1000 F, 200F/h to 1069 F, 500F/h to 1250, and 200F/h to cone018 (1319F), and this seemed to work perfectly. 

Evaluating how it went, I can see that one challenge was making sure all the red luster was fully cleaned off my red glaze.  I'm left with some purplish marks where the cleaning was not complete.  Is there a way to buff these off the fired piece? Or is it just on to the next piece?

 

 

[Bill Kielb]

It can be removed and these finishes do wear away over time. You may be able to scrape away and gently Polish the glaze if damaged. I think it might prove difficult though, but again masking the good surface could protect it from polishing damage. It should have melted a bit into the softened glaze though, so fully restoring might be really tough. Those small solid figures are probably ideal for your crikut though. As shapes get bigger and fit over bigger curves on the vase keeping a tight seal becomes more difficult. Nice piece. The rim and bottom are definitely a possibility for decent masking tape though for the string straight line.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Bill Kielb

[MKG001]

Thanks so much.  If you have another minute... what is a good way to polish the surface if I do succeed in scraping away the undesired patches of luster?

[Bill Kielb]

What comes to mind is light compound and a small polishing wheel. Definitely would test light, and medium compound before going all in.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

You can buy gold lustre erasers that will remove lustre that got in the wrong place, those purple smudges, or if you decide you just don’t like it. It’s an abrasive stone that doesn’t damage glaze. There’s a number of suppliers that carry it online, and at the moment the average cost seems to be about $14 in Canadian dollars. If you’re going to do more work with lustre, could be worth getting one. 

[MKG001]

Wow, that sounds perfect. I'll definite give it a try, thank you!