Skutt Error Code 1, what to troubleshoot first?

[Lucybeaumont]

Hi!

I am a fairly new kiln owner, with a used Skutt 1027, set up in my small garage studio. The kiln is visually in great shape, purchased from the original owner who makes and sells her work and kept it well maintained. The elements don't have any visual breaks or bulges.

I'm keeping a firing log and have now fired it 7 times, with 3 errors. So not the best track record but I'm learning!! First two were simple/dumb mistakes --  first, an electrical error bc my electrician had wired for 30 amps instead of 60, which we fixed. Second error was when the garage temp got over 100 degrees and kiln shut off. Which I didn't realize would happen but makes sense! After that, I fired a few more times successfully (both bisque and glaze to cone 5 + 6) by opening the garage door at the end of the firing, and putting up a bunch of fans. So fixed that too.

Recently, however, I just got another error message, Error 1. I was doing a 06 bisque fire which I started at 11am, and expected would finish by midnight. At 2am however, it was still just at 1800 and temp seemed to be climbing painfully slow (especially as I wanted to go to bed!) ...and at 2:45am I saw the Error 1 code, reached at 1808 degrees. Kiln had been set: cone 06, 1 hour preheat, no hold, medium speed. I only had cone 06 witness cones (I know I should have had 07 and 05 but didn't!!) and they bent completely (one from the bottom shelf is completely melted over flat).

 

From researching online I see that could mean bad relays, old elements, bad thermocouple, or low voltage. But knowing that doesn't exactly let me know where to start!  Do witness cones bending mean  it did get to temp? And thus it might be a thermocouple problem? Or is it just because it ran so long at a lower temp that it actually reached cone 06 (and beyond) since cones are time + temp factor?

 

I went ahead as a first step and tried what Skutt recommended with running a Ramp + Hold Program (Seg 1, Rate 999 deg/hr, Temp 750) and then with protective glasses on opened each peep hold for a look. This was very very satisfying as I saw that the coils did not glow! Ah ha! The top 4 rows (is that one coil??) remained black. So I guess I change those? Any feedback, advice is much appreciated!

 

Thank you!

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Lucybeaumont

[Bill Kielb]

Looks like the 1027 has three relays, each control one ring which has two elements in series. So you could have a bad element in the top ring or bad relay that powers it. Easy to test the elements with an ohm meter or multimeter to tell if they are open as well as to get an idea of how worn they are. Elements generally only last 100-150 firings before they degrade enough to where the kiln will not finish a cone 6 firing. If an elements resistance grows to more than about 10% of its original resistance then it’s time to replace. At this point ALL elements are replaced as they wear together.

since your cone dropped, it did reach that amount of heat work. The error I believe reflects the kilns inability to climb fast enough.

Here is one of several videos on checking element resistance https://youtu.be/67L6xBiJHz0

Here is your wiring diagram, I believe: https://skutt.com/images/KM1227-3-_1027-1PH-and-3PH.pdf

Don't forget shut off the power to the kiln, test safely

 

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Bill Kielb

[oldlady]

lucy, welcome to the forum!  it is a real step up to your own kiln, congratulations!

since you will be replacing the elements in the entire kiln, you have an opportunity to replace that broken top brick, too.   FYI when judging the element's remaining life, the bending over of that top element is an early sign to order the elements now.   once you replace them you will be able to fire often without worry.

check out the other bricks and replace any that are in an easy location or allowing the elements to sag out of the groove.  cannot see clearly but just across the top there appears to be a pair of bricks whose corners are gone.  judgement call,  a decision to leave them alone or replace now.   check the grooves for drips of glaze or other interference with the smooth path of the new elements.  you won't be taking it apart often but when you do, do it all at once.

[PeterH]

You might also be interested in this Service Training Manual.
Skutt:Troubleshooting Theory https://skutt.com/images/Error-Codes.pdf

[neilestrick]

Your kiln has 3 rings/sections, and each ring has two elements. Each element loops twice, so 4 rows of elements. Each ring of the kiln is connected to a relay, so 3 relays. The relays are what you hear clicking when the kiln is firing. They're just switches that send power to the elements. Because your kiln has both elements dead in one ring, you likely have a dead relay. If the problem was an element, then we would probably see only one dead element, because it's very rare for two elements to fail at the same time. Unplug the kiln and open up the control box and inspect for any obvious fried wiring connections. Then open up the panel in the control box to get to the internal wiring and relays. Again, check for any obvious fried connections. If everything looks good, then the relay for that section is likely the culprit. Because all 3 relays click at the same time, if one has died to to age, then the other two are probably close to dying as well, so you should replace all 3. You can either get them from Skutt, or source them yourself on the internet for a lower price. Just search for the part number on the relay.

[Lucybeaumont]

Thanks everyone, for all of these great suggestions and for all the info/wisdom! I reached out to the potter who I bought the kiln from and she said she had replaced the relays just before she sold it to me. Since I've only fired it 7 times hopefully those are still ok, unless it's just a loose wire type of thing. She also had a box of new elements she had ordered but not yet installed as she thought that would likely need to happen soon. She included that box with the sale of the kiln so I had them all ready to go.

A friend who runs a small community arts ceramics studio offered to come over and help and showed me how to replace the elements. Oldlady, I wish I had thought of replacing the brick at the same time, that is a good suggestion! Possibly I could go back and do that but because I had the elements in hand and not the brick it didn't occur to me.

My friend walked me through how to change one element. I have decided to do them all since they were all installed at the same time and were equally old so I'll be tackling the rest this week. Fingers crossed when I plug it back in and test again it all glows nicely! I was feeling pretty lost a couple days ago but am more hopeful now...and once again have learned a few things. I did not realize being a potter meant being an electrician!

Thanks again!

[oldlady]

you will find that with several years of work into being a potter, they know many things about many different subjects.   the average electrician does not run into kilns in his/her daily business.  there is a lot more to working on a kiln than connecting wires.   if you hire one, get that name from several potters or businesses using kilns.

you will also learn to keep your eyes open to everything.   what someone does not want anymore is possibly exactly what you need in your studio.  saving money on permanent items allows you more $ to buy clay and glaze materials.

[Lucybeaumont]

7 minutes ago, oldlady said:

you will find that with several years of work into being a potter, they know many things about many different subjects.   the average electrician does not run into kilns in his/her daily business.  there is a lot more to working on a kiln than connecting wires.   if you hire one, get that name from several potters or businesses using kilns.

you will also learn to keep your eyes open to everything.   what someone does not want anymore is possibly exactly what you need in your studio.  saving money on permanent items allows you more $ to buy clay and glaze materials.

Great advice!

[Jeff Longtin]

Just to give you a heads up Lucy, if I'm perceiving the image correctly, it would appear you have a 1227. The "12" referring to the number of bricks running around the kiln. Just do a quick count before you buy elements.  An element for a 1227 will be different than an element for a 1027.

I can't recall if a 1227 has fuses but if it does those would be a simple fix. (50 amp fuses are about the thickness of your index finger and 2" long.) When an entire section is black its either a relay or a fuse.

 

 

[Lucybeaumont]

26 minutes ago, Jeff Longtin said:

Just to give you a heads up Lucy, if I'm perceiving the image correctly, it would appear you have a 1227. The "12" referring to the number of bricks running around the kiln. Just do a quick count before you buy elements.  An element for a 1227 will be different than an element for a 1027.

I can't recall if a 1227 has fuses but if it does those would be a simple fix. (50 amp fuses are about the thickness of your index finger and 2" long.) When an entire section is black its either a relay or a fuse.

 

 

Thanks, Jeff! I do have the 1027 (was pretty sure but just ran out to look at what it is labeled with, and yep 1027).  The potter I bought the kiln from included a box of new elements with the sale and I'm happy to report I'm halfway through replacing them! She said they were due for replacement and that she had just replaced the relays. It does have a fuse but that appears fine. Fingers crossed it will all work again when I test it.

[Bill Kielb]

2 minutes ago, Lucybeaumont said:

It does have a fuse but that appears fine. Fingers crossed it will all work again when I test it.

You should be able to find a broken one as you remove them; however if they are old enough it’s going to be hard to tell as they will easily break into pieces as you try and remove them. Just an add, try and be sure all nice “very tight” connections to the elements.

[Lucybeaumont]

Update. After replacing all the elements and running another test——I went from the top 4 rows not glowing (2 elements), to the top 2 rows not glowing (1 element). Boo!! I let it cool and checked all my connections which looked good to me and ran again with same results. I guess at least this confirms it’s not the relay. I’ll let it cool and look again in the morning but more suggestions welcome. Also I noticed the bottom element appears brighter than the rest? Not sure what that means...

[Bill Kielb]

I was wrong, those ring elements are wired in parallel. Sorry, too much in a rush! The relay has to work for just one of those elements to work. Likely bad connection or jumper between the two elements. Look very closely at the wiring or snap a few pictures of the connections as well as the jumper wires and post. Likely simple fix

Edited September 7, 2022 by Bill Kielb

[neilestrick]

The very top and very bottom elements run hotter to compensate for heat loss out the lid and floor.

What Bill said. I't probably a wiring problem. The feeder wires go from the terminal strip to the ends of one element, and a short wire jumps from there to the next element.

[Lucybeaumont]

54 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

I was wrong, those ring elements are wired in parallel. Sorry, too much in a rush! The relay has to work for just one of those elements to work. Likely bad connection or jumper between the two elements. Look very closely at the wiring or snap a few pictures of the connections as well as the jumper wires and post. Likely simple fix

Bill and Neil, thank you! I think maybe by comparing my wires to the wiring diagram Bill shared I think I see the problem.  See attached snapshots for my wiring. It's hard to see so I marked in green where the wires are currently running (all connections are nice and snug). I think the one I drew in red is the mistake I need to fix (green shows how it is, red is where I think it should be instead). My friend helped me with that top one. We labeled wires as we went but between the two of us maybe we didn't put it back the same way it started. Would you guys agree?

[Lucybeaumont]

Here's another pic of that top ring without my lines drawn on it if that's easier to see. It looks like 2 went to 3 when it should have gone to 4.

[Lucybeaumont]

Guys, I fixed it!!! After studying those drawings and looking at my wires I felt pretty confident I had found the problem. Took a chance and it's now fully back to operational! Thanks for all the support! Time for a bisque fire tomorrow!

 

[Bill Kielb]

Sorry, just saw this. Hard to tell without a bit more of a step back context photo but the fact it works and matches the diagram  means you have it right. I am curious why some of the the insulators don’t push in flush though. No need to force them though if they are just too long, they only need to keep the bare element wire from touching any metal so they don’t have to be flush. Nice work! BTW your kiln should match the top drawing, the bottom drawing is for a three phase kiln. Both drawings have identical element configurations though.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Bill Kielb

[Lucybeaumont]

5 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

Sorry, just saw this. Hard to tell without a bit more of a step back context photo but the fact it works and matches the diagram  means you have it right. I am curious why some of the the insulators don’t push in flush though. No need to force them though if they are just too long, they only need to keep the bare element wire from touching any metal so they don’t have to be flush. Nice work! BTW your kiln should match the top drawing, the bottom drawing is for a three phase kiln. Both drawings have identical element configurations though.

Thanks! I feel like some of my insulators weren't lining up properly with the holes which is why they aren't flush. I'll open it back up and see if I can get them in a bit better before I fire it. I didn't  know if my kiln was 1 phase or 3 phase, and actually have no idea what that means to be honest! But the drawings looked the same to me...so much to learn! Thank you for your help.

[Roberta12]

@Lucybeaumont Congratulations for being a problem solver!!  You will become more and more confident in your ability to repair and maintain your kiln as time goes on.  And if you get stuck, and it's after hours and you can't contact Skutt, these people on the forum are amazing!  @oldlady was very correct when she commented on the average electrician not knowing much about kilns.  By contacting a potter friend and the forum, you were able to get the job done.  Happy potting!

Roberta

[Min]

On 9/5/2022 at 6:25 PM, Lucybeaumont said:

My friend walked me through how to change one element. I have decided to do them all since they were all installed at the same time and were equally old so I'll be tackling the rest this week.

Since you have put new elements in your kiln it should be fired empty the first time to condition the elements. Conditioning the elements will help with their longevity. Skutt recommends firing empty to cone 04 at a medium speed to do this. Elements are expensive, anything to make them last longer is a good idea. 

https://skutt.com/images/Top-5-ways-to-Extend-the-Life-of-your-Kiln-Elements.pdf

[Lucybeaumont]

4 hours ago, Min said:

Since you have put new elements in your kiln it should be fired empty the first time to condition the elements. Conditioning the elements will help with their longevity. Skutt recommends firing empty to cone 04 at a medium speed to do this. Elements are expensive, anything to make them last longer is a good idea. 

https://skutt.com/images/Top-5-ways-to-Extend-the-Life-of-your-Kiln-Elements.pdf

Thanks, I didn't know this and will follow that advice!

 

[Lucybeaumont]

4 hours ago, Roberta12 said:

@Lucybeaumont Congratulations for being a problem solver!!  You will become more and more confident in your ability to repair and maintain your kiln as time goes on.  And if you get stuck, and it's after hours and you can't contact Skutt, these people on the forum are amazing!  @oldlady was very correct when she commented on the average electrician not knowing much about kilns.  By contacting a potter friend and the forum, you were able to get the job done.  Happy potting!

Roberta

thank you!!