neilestrick Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 @Giovannaaa1109 Theres a lot of corrosion on the disconnect terminals there, especially the center tap. One of those center tap wires goes to the relays, which could be the cause of it not working. I'd replace the disconnects with new ones for starters. Also, open up the panel from the inside so you can see the relays. You have to undo the element feeder wires and thermocouple connections, then remove the 3 screws on each side of the control box to remove the heat baffle. It's easiest to remove the control box from the kiln once you unhook the feeder wires. Check all the disconnect terminals on the relays, too. Before investing in a new controller, you should check the outputs on the controller with a multi-meter. If you don't have one you can pick one up for $15-20. It's a good thing to have to diagnose kiln problems, anyway. From output 1 you should be getting 12 volts DC going to the relays. If that's working, then the problem is in the wires, or all 3 relays died at the same time. My gut tells me it's not a controller problem. You should exhaust the other possibilities before spending that money. You can't replace a Skutt controller with a Bartlett V6CF, the Skutt controller is larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 Yes this board looks like a drop in replacement and really looks like a Bartlett 700:series so plug and play with more options. I think it’s most likely the controller that is bad as the area I thought could be burned is just the power supply. The staining is likely from the heat generated by the rectifier which has the heat sink attached to it adjacent to the power capacitors. If the power supply was not working your display would not light up so dusty and dirty but should be still working. Circled with yellow The connectors circled in yellow could be cleaned but they supply 24v/12v ac to this board so if they were that bad, the board likely would not power up. Circled with red One thing you could try is the IC chips in this thing are old school and therefore use IC sockets. New stuff is just soldered to the board directly. The large chip is an eprom which contains the programming for this control. Corrosion to these pins could cause issue, so in the old days we would extract this chip and reseat it just to be sure it was connected well. Extracting this is a bit of a cautious - end for end - seesaw gentle prying game. The chip is likely sensitive to static discharge as well so if you have never done it a bit intimidating. Having checked everything else I would extract all the socketed chips and reseat them just to see If I could get it to work. Going through every voltage and wire connection is probably a good idea but at this point three relays failing at once seems highly unlikely and this thing never transitions to actually run the program I believe. Replacement I think at this point is warranted. Your pick for a replacement seems fine, just need to read the manual that applies to it. All these boards generally come set up for type K thermocouples and are hardware configured with an onboard jumper and in software by way of initial setup. There may be some initial Simple setup, the new manual should detail this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 Quite a bit of moisture and oxidation in there, that's never a good thing in combination with electronics. Mold spots on the chip yikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 minute ago, liambesaw said: Quite a bit of moisture and oxidation in there, that's never a good thing in combination with electronics. Mold spots on the chip yikes Looks better than most of the stuff I have taken apart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 @Bill Kielb I believe the board is the same as a V6CF, but I don't think you can buy just the board for either controller. And the Skutt keypad has different inputs and firing parameters, and is larger in size by quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, neilestrick said: @Bill Kielb I believe the board is the same as a V6CF, but I don't think you can buy just the board for either controller. And the Skutt keypad has different inputs and firing parameters, and is larger in size by quite a bit. Yes, I believe that is correct. Turn them over, they look the same, but he picked a drop in with the old Skutt keypad so I believe it fits as is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 22 hours ago, Giovannaaa1109 said: Hope these pictures are a little better. Ive found this circuit board replacement on The Ceramic Shop for $255, not the worst in the world. Would this newest 700 series be compatible with my old kiln? I could ask the kiln technicians on the website. I tried to wiggle #2 and #6 tighter, but it does look a little undone compared to the others in the picture. Just a last note. This is a single zone kiln so your new control will likely require connection to the #2 output and potentially some software configuration. Your new control is capable of three zone operation but the default for single zone use has generally been to use the center or #2 output for single zone use and configure the control in software so it knows it is single zone. Just like it is currently wired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 I don't know about the Skutt specific version, but on my v6cf all I had to do was connect the relay to output 2, didn't have to configure it to have 1 zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, liambesaw said: I don't know about the Skutt specific version, but on my v6cf all I had to do was connect the relay to output 2, didn't have to configure it to have 1 zone. Probably defaults to single zone but worth mentioning just in case. Using output #2 is one that also can be confusing to,folks for single zone. Worth pointing out JIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 Yes, the newest version will work. Any Skutt controller that looks like yours will work. But change out those corroded terminals and check the relay connections first and see if that fixes it. Because if the wires are the problem then a new controller won't fix it. Skutt controllers are single zone by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giovannaaa1109 Posted December 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2019 Sorry, got caught up in holiday activities to write back. Wow thanks for everyones response! I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to kilns and repairs, so im a bit overwhelmed with all this info. If I do purchase a replacement circuit board, I will make sure to verify that its compatible with my current kiln. But for starters I should replace these rusted terminals and see what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted December 26, 2019 Report Share Posted December 26, 2019 Just now, Giovannaaa1109 said: Sorry, got caught up in holiday activities to write back. Wow thanks for everyones response! I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to kilns and repairs, so im a bit overwhelmed with all this info. If I do purchase a replacement circuit board, I will make sure to verify that its compatible with my current kiln. But for starters I should replace these rusted terminals and see what happens? Sure, the wiring kit is cheap, and you'll want to buy a new one anyway if you're replacing the circuit board. Might as well buy it first and see if it's the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulk Posted December 26, 2019 Report Share Posted December 26, 2019 ...have been curious what those (circled) connectors are called - search tells me spade, or spade and crimp (any road, they are very good) - however unlikely, corrosion -> short is certainly possible, particularly that closer wire on the middle connector, imo, looks like the copper within may be green and fluffy? If you picked up that multi-meter, continuity tests are simple enough. Cut, strip, crimp to replace the wire side o' that connector a breeze with the right tools. These come in handy ...always check the power is for sure shut off! Strip, clip, crimp tool, less than three bucks US; multi meter, about ten. As for the assorted connectors, just for illustration... My guess is the problem(s) is/are associated with the board. Post back when you pin it down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 26, 2019 Report Share Posted December 26, 2019 4 hours ago, Hulk said: ...have been curious what those (circled) connectors are called - search tells me spade, or spade and crimp (any road, they are very good) - however unlikely, corrosion -> short is certainly possible, particularly that closer wire on the middle connector, imo, looks like the copper within may be green and fluffy? If you picked up that multi-meter, continuity tests are simple enough. Cut, strip, crimp to replace the wire side o' that connector a breeze with the right tools. These come in handy ...always check the power is for sure shut off! Strip, clip, crimp tool, less than three bucks US; multi meter, about ten. As for the assorted connectors, just for illustration... My guess is the problem(s) is/are associated with the board. Post back when you pin it down! Crimp tightly! I’ll say again, Crimp tightly! Use proper crimpers as hulk has shown above. Can pick up all at big box hardware store, all very common. You can even can get ratchet style from Amazonia that ensures it’s completely crimped. Jaws will not release till it’s crimped tight enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted December 26, 2019 Report Share Posted December 26, 2019 Or just buy the wire for 2 dollars, or an entire rewiring kit for 33: http://www.kilnparts.com/1000129-30.html Unless you're going to be using them more often than once every few years, I don't see a reason for investing in proper crimpers and building your own wiring harnesses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 26, 2019 Report Share Posted December 26, 2019 You may or may not need a whole new wire kit, but judging by those photos it would be a good idea. Short term, just cutting off and replacing those terminals would be a good start. After you cut them off and strip back the wire covering, you'll be able to see if the wire is in good condition or not. The wires should be plenty long that you can cut off all the corroded area. Both ends of the wire may be corroded, so check the relay connections, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giovannaaa1109 Posted December 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2019 Okay great. I ordered a rewiring kit and already have a pair of crimpers. Hopefully this might do the trick. Ill post back when the parts come in. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 6 hours ago, Giovannaaa1109 said: Okay great. I ordered a rewiring kit and already have a pair of crimpers. Hopefully this might do the trick. Ill post back when the parts come in. Thanks again! Since these wires carry the voltage that powers up you controller and your controller does power up, they are probably not the cause of your problem. Good to check them and totally acceptable to crimp new ends on if you have the means. No harm in checking and replacing though but this is not likely to cure your issue. Hope it does, but in the event it does not then your initial speculation about the control is most likely correct. Just wanted to mention in case you were to plan future firings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said: Since these wires carry the voltage that powers up you controller and your controller does power up, they are probably not the cause of your problem. Good to check them and totally acceptable to crimp new ends on if you have the means. No harm in checking and replacing though but this is not likely to cure your issue. Hope it does, but in the event it does not then your initial speculation about the control is most likely correct. Just wanted to mention in case you were to plan future firings. Some of those wires are for controller power, but some are also the wires that carry the voltage to the relays. If one of those is bad, then that could account for them not clicking on. It's a much cheaper fix than a new controller, and worth doing based on the condition of the wires and terminals even if a new controller is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 29, 2019 Report Share Posted December 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, neilestrick said: Some of those wires are for controller power, but some are also the wires that carry the voltage to the relays. If one of those is bad, then that could account for them not clicking on. It's a much cheaper fix than a new controller, and worth doing based on the condition of the wires and terminals even if a new controller is required. couldn’t agree more Yes the center tap wire to be specific. As I said I hope it works. Hope for the best plan for the worst. Replacement is fine. Since the control is getting power from these wires and it is powered and it does not sequence to run a program probably the control. Replace or repair this by all means, just don’t crash plan a firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giovannaaa1109 Posted January 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 Hello everyone! After about 3 weeks to finally get parts due to the holiday season, I am able to post back. I ordered a SKUTT 700 series Touchpad Replacement, new harness wiring set and a new transformer since I accidentally ripped one of the fuses out. I successfully installed all of the above and still the same issue! Does not run firing or get hot. Luckily the new circuit board is a major upgrade from my old one, so I am able to now run the diagnostic test. After placing the pieces of paper on the elements and running the program, no papers were burned. However the top 3 bricks/elements were warm whereas all the lower ones were still ice cold. I did hear a buzzing sound when the test reached output 2. Other than that, Im at a loss of what do next. I was hoping replacing any of those things would be the fix to this frustration. Im 99.9% sure I replaced everything correctly. The only thing I was slightly confused was the 2 red wires that connected to the fuse, Ive uploaded a picture from the replacement instructions. Sorry for the impending confusion: When opening up the baffle and looking at my own, my fuse is below the transformer and upside-down, opposite from the instructions diagram. Making that perfectly vertical top attacher on the bottom, and the slightly diagonal one on the top. I went with more how the instructions looked, rather than just attaching it to what shows the top and bottom. Confusing, I know, but Im fairly certain red wire connector #1 and #6 are in their appropriate places. This is just a maybe if there's anything wrong that could be making the entire kiln not work, but I don't think this is actually the case, so just disregard this paragraph : ) Hoping someone can help what to do next. Not sure if that means I need to replace all the elements? Looking forward to hearing from anyone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 Did you set it up in the controller for 3 zone firing? If not it will only output to a single zone. Default setting is single zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giovannaaa1109 Posted January 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 I definitely did not set up for 3 zone firing. Not entirely sure how to do that at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 @Giovannaaa1109 If the wires going in and out of the fuse holder aren't correct, then the controller won't power up. So if you've got power to the controller then they're good. It doesn't matter which way those connections are facing, you just need one wire on each tab. Do you hear the relays click when you start the firing? If they're not clicking, then they're not working. How long did you let it run before deciding the paper wasn't burning? Run a ramp/hold program with one segment, rate of 9999, to 800 degrees. That will turn the elements on full blast and should start the paper burning pretty quickly if the elements have power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giovannaaa1109 Posted January 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 @neilestrick Good to know about the fuse. I have not heard any buzzing or clicks from the beginning. When I ran the diagnostic test earlier today, I heard a soft buzzing sound on output 2, but no clicks. All I did was simply run the test, and let it go through its 4 Outputs and after that was done in about 5ish minutes or so it said idle, so I assumed it ran through long enough to burn the paper or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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