liambesaw
-
Posts
3,953 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Posts posted by liambesaw
-
-
1 minute ago, neilestrick said:
Someone still had to do some level of work to make the printed one, definitely the glazing and firing. They just picked a different method of forming it. One can usually tell when something is extruded, wheel thrown, slip cast, slab built, coil built, etc. Different tools for different folks. All can be done well, all can be done poorly. Every process has its benefits and its shortcomings, which is why we have so many different processes.
If that's the case, why does the printed one still look empty.
-
Just now, neilestrick said:
This gets to the heart of it. Your issue is not with the process, it's with how the process is being used.
There may be some truth to that, but I also believe the entire thing is lazy. And you're also misinformed about materials. In the beginning it was 3d printed plastic masters that were made into plaster molds, and this process is still used quite a bit because it's simple for mass production (which is the goal). And then things moved into "diy" extruder clay bodies loaded into hoppers. Now there are actual systems designed to the point where you don't need to know anything about the material. So you buy a white mix or a red mix or whatever, mix and load. I've seen someone answer the question "is that porcelain or stoneware" with "I have no idea". I mean come on.
But yeah. As things progress, you'll be able to print fired ceramic without the use of a kiln. And as things progress further you'll subscribe to a bed bath and beyond monthly furniture kit where your home printer just prints out a new set of dinnerware every month or a new vase, or whatever. No involvement with any sort of artist or creator. It's coming! But the machines will be the hero, not the designer.
-
31 minutes ago, neilestrick said:
Cheesy garbage is cheesy garbage regardless of how it's made. Is a poorly made heart-shaped pinch pot ashtray better than a 3D printed heart-shaped ashtray?
Yes, because you can tell someone made the crappy heart shaped pinch pot, and you can tell that someone did not make the printed one. I'm not talking about the print lines or resolution of the print, I'm talking about even when the lines are sanded off, you can still instinctively tell it was printed.
-
58 minutes ago, neilestrick said:
How is designing 3D printed ceramics any different than designing wheel thrown objects? If you don't have a good sense of form, balance, proportions, etc, then it won't be successful either way. I'm not talking about the actual computer work. I'm talking about creativity and conceiving an interesting idea that can then be built with whatever process you choose. Design is all about the ideas, not the execution.
Here's how. Grab a cylinder object, balloon it out here and there with a couple clicks, add some library shapes or whatever and voila, a masterpiece right? But you didn't do anything to any material, right? You can't bend a wheel thrown or slab built piece like you can virtually with a couple clicks, clay doesn't work like that. So without any worries about materials for the design, etc, you can print an object that would take actual careful thought and skill to make "in real life". I think in your head you open a 3d design software and you are building something from the ground up or something. It's not like that. It's so much easier and simple.
Anyway, I will have this goofy point of view until I see something 3d printed that isn't mimicking something better. I reckon the temptation is just too high to use the vast libraries of premade and scanned 3d objects that are out there.
I will not bow to our robot overlords! Haha, nah I just see printed stuff on Instagram and reddit and think wow that's just lazy, but I'm looking at it from the point of view of someone who has been using the software casually/professionally for a while.
Think of just drawing a smiley face on a piece of paper and then someone else turns it into clay, that's about as much as you need to know. Who is the artist? The machine?
-
You actually don't need any skill at design to make 3d printed ceramics, Niel. I do this at work every day, i am sorry to say but there is extremely little skill involved in both designing and printing 3d objects.
You can, of course, become skillful, but just like the efficiency in printing, the efficiency in design is also present.
In the fledgling days of 3d modelling and printing there was a lot of technical skill involved, now most of it has been abstracted away. Too lazy to be considered work, too automatic to be considered art. I see it every day, it's what I do.
-
38 minutes ago, Pres said:
Any way we look at it the future is coming fast, and it is cheaper to send a piece of software over the internet than to mail a package of parts.
bbest,
Pres
Cheaper, faster, more efficient throwaway garbage for your walls, I can't wait!
-
-
36 minutes ago, Pres said:
3-D printing is already an accepted manufacturing technique. Parts for equipment currently in use may be printed to replace old parts. The idea that someday you will pay a price for a piece of software to enter into your printer to make a new home decoration, machine part or such is not that far off. As with photography taking someone like Ansel Adams to raise the craft to an art form, it may take someone to raise 3D printing to an art form.
best,
Pres
I'd argue that ansel adams raised ansel adams into art form. There has been no ansel adams since, unless you count anne geddes?
I'm not even slightly an art snob, I know almost nothing about art from an institutional point. But 3d printing isn't even a craft, it's outsourcing the craft to a machine, entirely.
And if you think people will pay for designs to 3d print you're delusional. Once something is on the internet, it will be freely had forever. It's already a big problem. And that harkens back to the ikea art which 3d printed clay already resembles. Who cares if it can be had by anyone, no soul.
-
17 minutes ago, Min said:
@liambesaw, come on tell us how you really feel
Perhaps it's just a question that the relatively newer technique of 3d printed ceramics hasn't had enough time to be fully fleshed out yet. I get what you're saying about spotting the difference between those 2 artists you mentioned, how to capture that difference in programming? It will be interesting to see how this technology evolves.
Haha, but what would be the point of programming humanity into 3d printed clay? To make creativity more economic? It doesn't make any sense to me.
-
I think 3D printed pottery is hokey and ugly. I have yet to see a 3d printed ceramic that expresses anything, it all just looks cold and commercial. I understand there are many popular 3d printed artists out there, but 3d modelling on a computer is all about efficiency and I think something gets lost in the process. It's the new kitschy 80s slipcast craze reimagined.
There is technology which helps an artist create, and then there is technology that abstracts the artist away from creating.
There's also the issue where to make the 3d model worth the designers time, it has to be recreated over and over, exactly the same. I go to IKEA for that type of artwork!
I know, I know, I'm gonna get a lot of flack for saying that. But the proof is in the pudding. Compare hammerly ceramics and petrified forest potteries work. Some is quite similar in style, but you can spot instantly, instinctively which has been printed and which is an original work.
-
21 minutes ago, Magnolia Mud Research said:
If the clay body requires any combustion, logic seems to prefer having separate incoming and outgoing openings for the gases. At least that’s what my physics and engineering schools recommended.
Since air is so thin when it's past say 1000 degrees, is there really much convection happening? I have a feeling a kiln with a vent is 1000 times more efficient since there's no draft in an electric kiln. Is that right? Or is the gas exchange not really that significant in an electric kiln. I've never had carbon coring or anything in an electric kiln, regardless of peep arrangement.
- Bill Kielb and neilestrick
-
2
-
Keep in mind that gold lustres also contain a strong flux, so if glass is slumping at 018, it may slump extra in areas with lustre.
I've never heard of using gold resin lustre on glass. But I'm sure there must be some kind of gilding product specific for glass.
-
1 hour ago, Pres said:
@liambesawSpiral wedging was one of the techniques I taught when teaching, along with cut and slam, and the rams head. Spiral takes the least energy when wedging the most clay. . . .very efficient. I have read some good descriptions in books, but videos help the most, or a teacher than does demo, hand on hand, and then critiques as you wedge. Tough to do otherwise.
best,
Pres
Man I've watched so many people do it, I just think I'm doing something minorly wrong because I can do a spiral wedge, but it ends up being more of a nice spiral pizza full of bubbles.
-
I used that zircopax recipe and it did not work for me, it would always flake off after the first firing and glaze drips didn't come off cleanly like with the alumina. Got tired of reapplying and just switched to the alumina one. Still cracks after a while but nowhere near as bad. I really wanted the zircopax one to work because I have a 50lb bag and it was way cheaper than alumina.
-
I try not to get comfortable with a weight, so while I can throw 8lb cylinders fairly thin, I always try to get bigger, 10lb, 15lb, 20lb, etc. I feel like if I stay at 8lbs which is plenty for most everything functional, I'll never get better. My problem once I hit 15lbs or so is that no matter how much I pull it seems like the cylinder walls thicken up again as soon as I start shaping. It's difficult to use a lot of muscle while at the same time tryin to maintain even distance between my hands. Working on it though!
I usually will only wedge 10lbs in a lump, anything more I cant get my hands around and I still haven't even come close with spiral wedging, that's some voodoo magic I think I need someone to teach me in real life.
-
So it depends on what I'm doing. For forms I make repeats of, I have a master for each form. It says on the bottom the weight of clay that is used to make it. I put it on the wheel, set a gauge, and then I am up and away making them.
For plates it's easy. 12 inch bat, open to the edge, pull the edge in to the pins and then pull the wall and lay it down. It always ends in a 12 inch plate. I use 4lbs for a 12 inch plate.
-
That looks really nice callie, I'd definitely keep my berries in that bowl
-
27 minutes ago, Pres said:
Went to a orthopedic surgeon last week. My biggest concern was some cysts that have appeared on the lt wrist, and the rt second finger knuckle. X-rays of both hands have revealed areas of arthritis on second joints of fingers. In the end the Dr. asked about my pain, I answered that there was discomfort, not pain, and that I would work in the clay when things got sore and it would go away. He said that when it got bad to let him know and he could fix it. How I asked? "fuse the joints causing the pain. I said Why would I do that, as I got up to leave!
best,
Pres
Yikes! I hope stem cell joint therapy is finally FDA approved by the time I get arthritis. I know I can't afford it now, but there's a chance in the future I could if insurance covered part! Amazing how you can regrow cartridge with those therapies, and despicable how they are keeping it unapproved to make money.
-
Also hit the pottery supply place and picked up another half ton of porcelain... Yes... Another stoneware potter caught the porcelain bug...
Could be worse I suppose, but I finally found a porcelain that I love.
CKK6 from Seattle Pottery Supply, great stuff if anyone in the Seattle area has been looking for a good throwing porcelain. Not translucent or anything but glaze looks fantastic on it and it doesn't turn to a puddle when you're throwing.
- Selchie and Bill Kielb
-
2
-
I had a great time last weekend glazing a full 8 piece dinnerware set. Opened the kiln a few days later to crawling on 75% of it. I had a feeling something awful would happen when I saw a few cracks in the glaze; smoothed the cracks in and fired anyway.
So this weekend I'm throwing another 8 piece dinnerware set and defloccing the glaze this time.
- Callie Beller Diesel, Pres, Benzine and 1 other
-
4
-
-
-
11 minutes ago, Benzine said:
I recommend those chains that the banks use for their pens...
My wife tied the scissors to our drawer handle because I kept losing them in my studio... My ingenious solution was to go to Costco and buy a 3 pack of scissors... I still have one pair and the only reason I still have it is that it's tied to my decal book. :/
- Benzine and Bill Kielb
-
2
-
52 minutes ago, Denice said:
I don't even like lending tools to my husband, the only way I get them back is to hunt for them in his garage. Now he has a new woodworking shop in the basement so I it will take longer to find them. He will go in my studio and get a tool without asking, what really bothers me is that he will take tools that he also has but can't find them. He doesn't want to bother looking for them so he takes mine and promptly misplaces them. I try not to complain, I am lucky to have a husband that can fix anything. Denice
Sounds like me!
QotW: Do you draw a line in the sand about technology when it comes to your studio or anything Ceramic?
in Int'l Ceramic Artists Network (ICAN) Operations and Benefits
Posted
Yeah, I'm not saying that 3d printed stuff is ugly, I'm saying it's lazy, it's missing something. Even that example you posted looks like it was designed by a computer. Because it was.