Little Bike Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 http://www.bigceramicstore.com/bigceramicstore-com-biggest-little-kiln-with-sentry-controller-s1095-1.html Seems like a good deal, come with some kiln furniture and I especially like not having to deal with wiring issues. This would be my first kiln. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 A 30 amp kiln will require a 40 amp circuit to be safe (you should always have a circuit 25% higher than rated amps). I would also have the wiring checked to make sure it is the right gauge for the stress the kiln will put on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 National electric code requires that kilns be on a breaker that is 25% greater than the draw of the kiln. At 28 amps, that means 35 amps, which means you go with a 40 amp breaker. I'm not sure why Paragon is telling people to put these on a 30, because it goes against code. If you put i on a 40 amp breaker it will be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Just reminder 40 amps uses a #8 wire size to be safe.As well as the 40 amp breaker. With kilns there is always wiring issues-its just part of the deal. I like L&L kilns-worth the extra $$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugaboo Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 A.so keep in mind how far away your Kiln will be from the breaker... the further away the bigger your wire will have to be to make up for the extra distance. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bike Posted July 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Thanks all, guess I'll rethink. What I'd like to do is have a small shed in the backyard with the kiln, I don't want to have to worry about venting from the garage and in my neighborhood I'm not comfortable leaving the garage door open unattended for hours. I'll look into upgrading the electrical for something off my back patio. I'm live inland Southern California so really, really cold winters aren't a concern (although it's crazy hot and humid here right now!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 good lord! that is what i paid for my first ever new car! yeah, it was 1969 but it was a CAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincron Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 You will probably need to hire an electrician to install the power you will need for this kiln - or any kiln that you need to fire to ^6+ But some other considerations would be what sort of glazes and effects you want on your pottery. There are some glazes that benefit from a programmed slow cooling cycle to create crystals and other interesting effects. But if this is not what you are doing, you really don't need an electronic kiln. My first kiln was a used Cress FX23 which uses a kiln-sitter instead of electronic controls, and it fired perfectly every time. I now have a Cress electronic kiln, and have had multiple problems with it. (Also purchased used) I wish I had my old kiln because I really don't need the custom programmed cycles, and since my kiln is not reliable, I am now the kiln-sitter! My first kiln was free, but the second one I only paid $350. I think it's well worth it to try a used kiln first before making that kind of investment on a kiln that may or may not suit your needs. If you are in southern California, Aardvark Clay in Santa Ana has a cork board and I always see used kilns posted for sale. Just a thought...good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 I contacted Paragon with this question: "Question regarding this kiln (Biggest Little Kiln) that BigCeramicStore.com is selling. It states it draws 28 amps but the recommended breaker size is only 30 amps. It’s my understanding that the breaker needs to be 25% greater than the amps of the kiln. Wondering if this is a typo from BigCeramicStore or ????" and got this answer today: "HI That is a correct statement for items that are on a continuous load. A kiln is not they are considered 50% Thank you for your business, Regards, Laura Miller Ext 237 Paragon Industries, L.P. - "Better Designed Kilns!" 2011 South Town East Blvd. Mesquite, TX 75149-1122 Voice: 972-288-7557 & 800-876-4328 / Fax: 972-222-0646 laura@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 From Jadelearning.com, a site for electrical licensing continuing education: 210.20 Protecting Branch Circuit Continuous Loads. Click to Enlarge; Mouse Over to Zoom Continuous loads are protected at no less than 125% of the calculated current. A continuous load is any load which is on for 3 hours or more (Article 100). Overcurrent protection for continuous loads must be sized at no less than 125% of the load. The increase in the fuse or breaker size is not because the current from a load increases when a load operates for more than 3 hours. If the voltage applied to a load is constant and if the load itself doesn’t change, the current remains the same no matter how long the load operates. If a load draws 100 amps when it is first turned on, it will still be drawing 100 amps as long as it runs. The problem with continuous loads is the heat that is generated in both conductors and in terminals where conductors are connected. Heat is produced any time current flows though conductors and through terminals; but, if conductors are sized correctly and the loads do not run continuously the heat produced is insignificant. However, the longer the current flows through a conductor or through terminals where it is connected the more they are heated. The NEC has found that loads operated for 3 hours or more cause significant heat to build up which adversely affects conductors, terminations, and overcurrent devices. Increasing the rating of overcurrent devices and the ampacity of conductors for continuous loads by 125% compensates for the heat buildup at the overcurrent device terminals. Circuit breakers are thermal-magnetic devices; and, increased heat at the breaker terminals can cause a breaker to trip at a current below the breaker’s rating. A larger breaker will compensate for the heat buildup of continuous loads by having a higher thermal trip point. A circuit breaker´s thermal setting is to protect the circuit from overloads, not short circuits. Additional heat at the breaker terminals will fool the breaker into thinking there is an overload on the system and cause a nuisance trip. The NEC requires conductors for continuous load to be rated for 125% of the load’s nominal current. Increasing the ampacity of conductors for continuous loads helps reduce heat buildup on an overcurrent device’s terminals. The conductor acts like a heat-sink and pulls heat away from the breaker terminals and reduces nuisance tripping caused by thermal buildup within the breaker. 125% is written as a decimal by moving the decimal point to the left 2 places as follows: 125% = 1.25. You increase the breaker or conductor size for a continuous load by 125% by multiplying a load’s rated amperage by 1.25. Example #1: Determine the right size breaker and conductor for a 40-amp continuous load as follows: 40-A x 1.25 = 50-A. Use a 50-A breaker and select a conductor that has an ampacity of at least 50-amps. Example #2: Determine the largest continuous load that can be protected by a 60-amp breaker on a conductor that has a 60-amp rating as follows: 60 X .80 = 48-amps. Check that a load rated at 48-amps is the largest load that can be protected by a 60-amp breaker by multiplying 48 by 1.25: 48-A x 1.25 = 60-A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bike Posted July 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 If I go electric, I'll have everything checked out by an electrition regardless based on what all you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 True, the kiln is not typically fully on for 3 solid hours. But that doesn't mean that it couldn't be, and I think it needs to be wired up for those situations. Depending on the size of the kiln and the density of the load, you could definitely get the kiln to run full on for 3 hours trying to get to the peak temperature. What if you program it to run full on to cone 10? That would definitely be a full on for 3 hours situation. Plus, even when the kiln is cycling on and off, at the high end of a firing it's not off long enough for the heat buildup in the wiring to dissipate before it cycles back on. It's usually only off for a second or two, otherwise the temperature drops. I've never heard of kilns being described as anything but continuous load appliances. It's not an argument I would want to have with my insurance agent. Plus, I've seen many 48 amp kilns blow 50 amp breakers. Do you want to go through the expense of wiring the kiln to a 30 amp breaker, only to find that it blows it and you have to rewire it to a 40 amp breaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Totally agree Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I'm going to call B.S. on Paragon on this one. If a kiln is a 50% device and therefore not subject to the 125% rule, why do the stated specs for their larger kilns all list a breaker/circuit size that meets the 125% rule, i.e., 40-45 nominal amps require 60A breaker? And why do both L&L and Skutt give installation specs for all their kilns at the 125% level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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