Replacement Elements for Skutt KM 1227

[Kelly in AK]

In my classroom I have a KM 1227 with 2-1/2" bricks (208 V, 3 phase). It's used for bisque and occasional cone 6 glaze. 

I'm looking for replacement elements online but only mostly seeing KM 1227-3" for sale. Makes me a little nervous I'll wind up getting the wrong thing. Would those work in the 2-1/2" version of this kiln? Out of my depth in the electricity department. 

[neilestrick]

You'll need the elements that match the voltage and phase of your kiln as well as the brick thickness, as they stretch them differently for the 2.5" and 3" kilns. Check your bricks, as the 12 sided kilns are usually built with 3" bricks. Also, there are two types of elements in your kiln- the very top and very bottom are one type, the 4 middle elements are another type. I'd look up part numbers for you but I'm out on vacation and don't have access to that info. If you can wait till Monday I can get that for you, or hopefully someone else here will jump in and help.

[Dick White]

As Neil notes, the change from 2.5" to 3" bricks matters - sometimes. My community studio has a pair of 16-year old 1227s, and they are 3" brick. Measure yours to be sure. If I remember correctly, it was my observation when the changeover became standard, L&L kept the exterior dimensions the same which caused the interior to be smaller (and thus all the sheet metal did not change, but older shelves were too big to fit in the smaller interior), while Skutt kept the interior dimension the same which caused the exterior (and related sheet metal) to be larger. And yes, nearly all Skutts have two different elements. The top and bottom ones are hotter and the 4 middle ones are a bit cooler. I am not in the studio now either, so I can't look at my notes of Skutt part numbers, but the online sellers I've dealt with have all the options clearly laid out - you have to specifically choose 208V 3-phase during the ordering process, and don't get confused with the 1227PK model. Some have you order 2 top/bottom elements and 4 middle elements, others just ask the kiln specs and they put together 6 of the right kinds. Also consider Euclids.com - good prices and good service. The differences between the Euclids product and the Skutt product are:

The Skutt elements are manufactured with little bends in the elements that match up with the corners of the kiln, and each element package will include 2 new ceramic insulators, 2 crimp connectors to connect the power wires to the element tails, and a packet of pins to hold the element in the groove in the brick.

Euclids' elements do not have the little kink at each corner (but I didn't find that a problem), they do not include new ceramic insulators (but for all the years I used the Skutt elements, I reused the original insulators unless one fell on the floor and broke, now I have a whole box of them that I don't know what to do with), they do not include new crimp connectors (but I prefer the bolt connectors that Euclids sells as they are easier to use (you don't need an industrial crimper and strong hands to get a tight connection) and you don't loose a half inch of the wiring every time you cut the old crimps off), and they send a 6 ft. roll of high temperature wire to cut your own pins.

[Mark C.]

Just call Skutt and talk story (have all your plate info ready) and know the brick thickness. Or order online from them

[Kelly in AK]

Thanks you guys! It’s definitely 2-1/2” brick and not a PK. I’m laughing a little at myself though- “Call Skutt.” Oh yeah, I forgot I could do that! 

[neilestrick]

19 hours ago, Kelly in AK said:

Thanks you guys! It’s definitely 2-1/2” brick and not a PK. I’m laughing a little at myself though- “Call Skutt.” Oh yeah, I forgot I could do that! 

If you're sure it's 2.5" brick, then are you sure it's a KM1227? Skutt doesn't make the 1227 with 2.5" brick. Is it a 1027?

[Hulk]

I had an old KM1027 (1988), 2.5" brick; we didn't bring it with us on our move North, however, the shelf set is only about five years old, so kept that.

Haven't decided on a new kiln just yet.
Most all are 3" brick now.
To use my shelves (without cutting*) in a ~seven cubic foot kiln, looks like the choices are Skutt (there are 2.5" brick 1027 models out there), Bailey/ConeArt - looks like all the other choices are a bit smaller inside diameter.

*should be simple enough to trim the shelves using a wet saw (tile saw).

[neilestrick]

14 minutes ago, Hulk said:

*should be simple enough to trim the shelves using a wet saw (tile saw).

Cordierite shelves can be cut with a masonry cutting disc (the black abrasive type) on a 7" circular saw. It makes a lot of dust, but it's easier than trying to maneuver a kiln shelf on a tile saw.

[neilestrick]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:27 PM, Dick White said:

while Skutt kept the interior dimension the same

Skutt 2.5" and 3" kilns have different interior dimensions. Otherwise you wouldn't need to specify which bricks when ordering elements. If you order the wrong elements, you can stretch each section of the 3" elements to fit a 2.5" brick kiln, but if you try to put 2.5" elements in a 3" kiln it won't work because they're too long. The body bands for both bricks are the same part number.

[Dick White]

7 hours ago, neilestrick said:

The body bands for both bricks are the same part number.

I may be remembering it backwards.

 

[Kelly in AK]

Yeah, that’s the nature of the problem. Skutt doesn’t make a 2-1/2” 1227. Yet here we are. So I’ll call ‘em tomorrow.

That was my question though, can you just stretch the elements for a 3” brick kiln to fit and call it good? 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Kelly in AK

[Hulk]

"...should be simple enough to trim the shelves using a wet saw (tile saw)."

Just saying, on account of I've trimmed concrete pavers, 1'x1'x2" and the 1'x2'x2", did a tile countertop in 3'x3' porcelain, and three showers, all used some 1'x1' and 1'x2'; all cases I'd prefer the wet saw, although I'll admit the three foot tiles were a bear on account of the weight.

[neilestrick]

8 hours ago, Kelly in AK said:

Yeah, that’s the nature of the problem. Skutt doesn’t make a 2-1/2” 1227. Yet here we are. So I’ll call ‘em tomorrow.

That was my question though, can you just stretch the elements for a 3” brick kiln to fit and call it good? 

Maybe you've got a Frankenkiln and that control box isn't original to the kiln. How many bricks are in each row of the kiln? A 1227 should have 12 bricks. A 1027 will have 10 bricks. In your photo the angle of the bricks looks more like 10. And if that's the case, you'll need to double check your setup to make sure you actually have 208 volt 3 phase service.

[Kelly in AK]

Whoa! Nice catch Neil. It's 10 bricks per ring, a 1027 with a 1227 control box. I don't have any provenance on the kiln, it was at the school when I was hired. I'll double check the electrical service. 

[Mark C.]

Skutt makes the exact elements you need just call them and tell them all the details as strange as they are-if they send the wrong ones it's on them and they will make it right.