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Kiln Atmosphere

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I was at the local welding supply picking up some things and got to thinking.

What if one, by using a flow meter, introduced into a kiln some sort of inert gas - such as argon, helium, nitrogen etc.

I know it's a weird question but you never know.

Thanks!

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I was at the local welding supply picking up some things and got to thinking.

What if one, by using a flow meter, introduced into a kiln some sort of inert gas - such as argon, helium, nitrogen etc.

I know it's a weird question but you never know.

Thanks!

 

 

 

In an electric kiln not much except that your oxidation effects would be reduced. If you wanted to stop oxidation with out reduction effects then you could possiblily accomplish that. I have no idea of what your resulting glaze chemistry would be.

 

The notion of adding inert gas to a fuel fired kiln is a non-starter. Fuel kilns use enormous amounts of air in any mode of operation.

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There are some people who use a small bunsen burner to introduce propane into a kiln to create a reduction atmosphere in an electric kiln. The electric coils fuel the heat to reach temperature but the bunsen burner produces the reduction atmosphere. The coils need to be treated with ITC to protect them from the fuel inside the kiln.

Marcia

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Guest The Unknown Craftsman

Here is some info on inert gas furnaces :

 

http://www.crystec.com/kllinhe.htm

 

or for reduction in home electric:

 

http://puttgarden.co...fallonator.html

 

Here are some folks that saw the Fallonator in action, including Bill Campbell, John Tilton, Ginny Conrow(!) and others :

 

http://www.puttgarden.com/crystal/workshop/electric_reduction/Page.html

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Shouldn't explode with inert gas. Oxygen - well that would probably ruin your kiln elements in no time.

Don't have any desire to try propane in an electric kiln!

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Hi,

Did you try introducing inert gas into the electric kiln?

I was wondering if nitrogen were introduced, if that could cause a reduction atmosphere in a safe way?

Thanks,

Edited by Esther Rena

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Hi Esther!

This thread has been dormant for quite some time ...there are some newer threads here on reduction and electric kilns.

My understanding is that what is called "reduction" in ceramic glaze firing is (essentially) CO - carbon monoxide; the influence on the hot glaze (and the clay) due to CO bonding with any available oxygen.

As for safe, flooding your kiln with nitrogen may not damage your kiln, however, there should be zero chance of any person's (or pet's) air supply being displaced by nitrogen. Collapse due to oxygen deprivation is very sudden - I've seen it*. Neutral don't mean safe. While on the subject, reduction has its own perils - there's fuel, and exhaust containing CO.

I am curious, any difference between neutral and oxygen glaze fire? If so, what and how? 

*Two guys walking along the top of the furnace, bungs open, cool and purge for maintenance. The lead guy appeared to stumble, then collapsed in a heap; the second guy runs in the other direction a few steps, takes a deep breath, then runs back, grabs the guy and drags him away, then gets him breathing again - it all happened in less than fifteen seconds. The second guy got suspended from work for three weeks for failure to follow protocol; the first guy got a week's suspension. The base protocol violation - going anywhere near an open bung whilst nitrogen is venting - well, they both were lucky, and the second guy saved the first guy's life. The other protocol violation - never enter a closed vessel to assist someone who is having an atmosphere problem (so often the rescuer also succumbs...); second guy didn't get fired, on account of there weren't no "vessel" and he perceived the general boundary of warm mostly nitrogen. There were a few witnesses, lucky Hulk wasn't the only one, smash.

Carry on. 

Edited by Hulk
a way away

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I don't think nitrogen would do a whole lot.  Reduction has less to do with a lack of oxygen and more to do with an excess of carbon monoxide.  Carbon monoxide strips oxygen molecules from metallic oxides to form carbon dioxide.  Nitrogen doesn't do this, and if it did, it would create a few very nasty gasses as a result.

 

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1 minute ago, liambesaw said:

I don't think nitrogen would do a whole lot.  Reduction has less to do with a lack of oxygen and more to do with an excess of carbon monoxide.  Carbon monoxide strips oxygen molecules from metallic oxides to form carbon dioxide.  Nitrogen doesn't do this, and if it did, it would create a few very nasty gasses as a result.

 

Reduction is gaining of electrons, that should make things clear as mud!

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4 hours ago, Hulk said:

Hi Esther!

This thread has been dormant for quite some time ...there are some newer threads here on reduction and electric kilns.

My understanding is that what is called "reduction" in ceramic glaze firing is (essentially) CO - carbon monoxide; the influence on the hot glaze (and the clay) due to CO bonding with any available oxygen.

As for safe, flooding your kiln with nitrogen may not damage your kiln, however, there should be zero chance of any person's (or pet's) air supply being displaced by nitrogen. Collapse due to oxygen deprivation is very sudden - I've seen it*. Neutral don't mean safe. While on the subject, reduction has its own perils - there's fuel, and exhaust containing CO.

I am curious, any difference between neutral and oxygen glaze fire? If so, what and how? 

*Two guys walking along the top of the furnace, bungs open, cool and purge for maintenance. The lead guy appeared to stumble, then collapsed in a heap; the second guy runs in the other direction a few steps, takes a deep breath, then runs back, grabs the guy and drags him away, then gets him breathing again - it all happened in less than fifteen seconds. The second guy got suspended from work for three weeks for failure to follow protocol; the first guy got a week's suspension. The base protocol violation - going anywhere near an open bung whilst nitrogen is venting - well, they both were lucky, and the second guy saved the first guy's life. The other protocol violation - never enter a closed vessel to assist someone who is having an atmosphere problem (so often the rescuer also succumbs...); second guy didn't get fired, on account of there weren't no "vessel" and he perceived the general boundary of warm mostly nitrogen. There were a few witnesses, lucky Hulk wasn't the only one, smash.

Carry on. 

Good story and a good example of being cautious with fumes. Potters are inventive and there can be dangers associated with that. Especially invisible danger and the actual speed with which it can happen. Heck, even the space station must have really specific attention given to ventilation especially in sleeping areas. In near zero G  plain ole carbon dioxide can collect around an astronaut very quickly and cause damage or death.

stay safe

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