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DirtRoads

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  1. Like
    DirtRoads reacted to Callie Beller Diesel in Turning your hobby into a business   
    I’m going to discourage any disrespect on any sides of this argument. We are a community and we work to figure out solutions and offer support. Spirited opinions are fine, but we’re not going to start name calling. We do not invalidate lived experiences just because they don’t reflect our own. 
    I think that the truth about the importance of social media lies somewhere in the middle of these opposing opinions, and definitely beyond overly broad statements and categorizations. If something works, but only does so under certain circumstances, that needs to be stated. There are people who make a reasonable living selling exclusively in person, selling exclusively online or using a hybrid model. I know in person and have been given numbers by people in all 3 categories. For professionals, it’s about how you choose to structure your business.
    Succeeding or failing due to someone being a better marketer than they are a craftsperson is NOT a new phenomenon. 20 years ago, people were complaining about someone only getting famous because they were friends with gallery owners. Now they’re mad because folks are good at taking photos and manipulating an algorithm correctly. For those people, the socialization is EASY. The internet, especially social media,  platforms people who wouldn’t be heard otherwise. That is both the best and the worst thing about it. 
    We can see amazing artists we wouldn’t have before get the opportunities they deserve, and we also get to see all the beginners do all their dubious beginner things and be loudly wrong on a very public forum. And heaven help the comments section of any 20-something woman making pots on the internet, whatever her skill level. 
    Placing no value on the internet as a marketing tool and discouraging anyone in the first half of their careers from using it is doing folks a huge disservice, IMO. It disregards the fact that most people under 45 expect a certain amount of internet presence, as do enough people over that age. It’s a big way we all communicate now, and telling less established artists to not bother is denying them a tool that could work for them IF used correctly.
    Doing everything that appeases the algorithm gods and neglecting the other parts of your business will definitely earn you a mental breakdown, and little else. As a potter, using service based marketing methods is going to be less than effective, and those are the types of courses that tend to be most prominent when you go looking for them. 
    But if you go in acknowledging you’re not likely to be the next Florian Gadsby and just use some good photos to help build your visibility and email list, I’d call that a sound professional practice. There’s a lot of room between trying to be internet famous and building a community that supports you financially. You do need to budget your time carefully, but you can build systems that help you do that effectively. Schedule online sales and dedicate a day to batch build content leading up to that. If you need styled still photos, take them on the same day you take them for your newsletter. Build a prop box and have a simple photo setup if you can’t just leave a booth set up somewhere. If you need short form video, take about 3-4 10 minute videos of yourself as you work that can be edited together in different ways. You don’t need to take fresh video every time, adn you might need to build some skills in IMovie or equivalent. I have a packing station set up next to my inventory storage so that I can knock out a shipment in about 5-10 minutes. Faster if I’m doing more than one at once. 
     
    I personally don’t live in a country that has a population base that supports 10-12 shows a year within driving distance that are large enough for me to net 5-7K each. That means I need to get my wares out online if I want to top up my income to that equivalent. If I don’t post regularly, my sales do suffer from the lack. I had to take a long social media break for my mental health last year, and my revenue shrank, the same way they would have if I didn’t sign up for some shows. 
     My photography skills are also hard won, and I find building posts regularly difficult, especially if they aren’t received the way I want them to be. I know about sanity saving systems, because I have to use them myself.  So online-only doesn’t work for me personally. But I do it, because it’s a steady trickle of income that adds up over the year. Mark once posted about making sponge holders being the difference between eating well and eating a lot of top ramen. For me, my equivalent is selling mugs online. And I think it’s important to acknowledge that the folks I know in real life who are making a good living now with an online-only model started building their audiences at markets. Email marketing is very important to their businesses.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  2. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from ceramicjames in Turning your hobby into a business   
    ^ I had 2 responses to this:   LOL (out loud) and secondly agree.   This question is ALWAYS on the board.       I'm agreeing with GEP that you have to be assured the "advisor" has actually reached financial viability in a pottery business.   
    My experience (going into my 13th year) is that there seems to be very little middle ground.   Either people are successful commercially or they are not.    I've seen quite a few get started and even talked to some people in my area.   Most people don't stay  in this for the long haul.  I use a format that I see less often.   I do 2 shows a year and have a free standing location.   I have had up to 8 employees, and am now down to only 1 plus myself.     Actually I make about the same profit.   One thing I did three years ago was adding slip casted wares to my hand building pottery line.     I buy these slip cast wares from an outside source and it decreased my clay production needs.   It's a nice supplement.   Also, I have a full jewelry line that I have 1 full time employee that stays in sales area and makes jewelry and waits on customers for pottery and jewelry sales (and a small hand crafted fragrance line that I make as my "hobby").
    I like this business 200x more with no employees in the production process except myself.  just got in a 4K pound drop of clay from Laguna  and will use all of it this year.   In previous years have used more than 10K pounds.   Not sure how much I will use this year ... probably will get one more 4k drop.
    In answer to your question, I don't do any online.    But I've had other businesses before this and was pretty comfortable in the mechanics of establishing a destination retail business.   I am a firm believer in capturing 4th quarter gift sales.   Half my yearly sales are in Nov/Dec.  I'm not sure I'm the best example for recommending channels.    I do some consulting  but could  easily have enough clients to do retail consulting full time.   I am always going to say "retail".   But I'm not 100% sure this is a good strategy for most potters and I turn down any consulting offers for any arts and crafts businesses.    Social media, at the current time, makes it easier to drive customers to a retail location than it used to be.  (however, FB and Instagram have implemented changes and may well introduce more that limit the cost effectiveness of this promotion).  I've written an extensive analysis of channels somewhere in these forums.     I am very pleased with the financial viability and profitability of my business.   I will say the ROI (return on investment i.e. equipment, materials, location set up), is exceptionally high.    The biggest draw back is the ease and consistency  of duplication.    I see duplication more successful in slip casting than in hand building.    I've had less experience with wheel work, as I dropped it years ago to keep up with the demand for my hand built wares.     Avoid hiring employees until you have your process and sales channels worked out.  I am also going to suggest that you approach wholesaling very cautiously.   I've always thought one should choose between wholesaling and retailing.    I have done wholesale in my jewelry line but have stopped because it was pulling me in 2 directions.
    Cheers.   Hope I get to see the survy.
    Sharon Grimes/Dirt Roads Pottery
     
  3. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from shawnhar in Turning your hobby into a business   
    ^ I had 2 responses to this:   LOL (out loud) and secondly agree.   This question is ALWAYS on the board.       I'm agreeing with GEP that you have to be assured the "advisor" has actually reached financial viability in a pottery business.   
    My experience (going into my 13th year) is that there seems to be very little middle ground.   Either people are successful commercially or they are not.    I've seen quite a few get started and even talked to some people in my area.   Most people don't stay  in this for the long haul.  I use a format that I see less often.   I do 2 shows a year and have a free standing location.   I have had up to 8 employees, and am now down to only 1 plus myself.     Actually I make about the same profit.   One thing I did three years ago was adding slip casted wares to my hand building pottery line.     I buy these slip cast wares from an outside source and it decreased my clay production needs.   It's a nice supplement.   Also, I have a full jewelry line that I have 1 full time employee that stays in sales area and makes jewelry and waits on customers for pottery and jewelry sales (and a small hand crafted fragrance line that I make as my "hobby").
    I like this business 200x more with no employees in the production process except myself.  just got in a 4K pound drop of clay from Laguna  and will use all of it this year.   In previous years have used more than 10K pounds.   Not sure how much I will use this year ... probably will get one more 4k drop.
    In answer to your question, I don't do any online.    But I've had other businesses before this and was pretty comfortable in the mechanics of establishing a destination retail business.   I am a firm believer in capturing 4th quarter gift sales.   Half my yearly sales are in Nov/Dec.  I'm not sure I'm the best example for recommending channels.    I do some consulting  but could  easily have enough clients to do retail consulting full time.   I am always going to say "retail".   But I'm not 100% sure this is a good strategy for most potters and I turn down any consulting offers for any arts and crafts businesses.    Social media, at the current time, makes it easier to drive customers to a retail location than it used to be.  (however, FB and Instagram have implemented changes and may well introduce more that limit the cost effectiveness of this promotion).  I've written an extensive analysis of channels somewhere in these forums.     I am very pleased with the financial viability and profitability of my business.   I will say the ROI (return on investment i.e. equipment, materials, location set up), is exceptionally high.    The biggest draw back is the ease and consistency  of duplication.    I see duplication more successful in slip casting than in hand building.    I've had less experience with wheel work, as I dropped it years ago to keep up with the demand for my hand built wares.     Avoid hiring employees until you have your process and sales channels worked out.  I am also going to suggest that you approach wholesaling very cautiously.   I've always thought one should choose between wholesaling and retailing.    I have done wholesale in my jewelry line but have stopped because it was pulling me in 2 directions.
    Cheers.   Hope I get to see the survy.
    Sharon Grimes/Dirt Roads Pottery
     
  4. Like
    DirtRoads reacted to Kelly in AK in QotW: What have you learned from/by customers/students when dealing with them?   
    So many things.
    One thing I learned early on was to be very careful about doing anything on commission. I rarely consider it anymore, though I gladly take feedback, ideas, and suggestions. 
    Some have gone spectacularly well, but they were made up for by a few that went equally bad.
    You’re aligning your client’s vision, your vision, and your abilities. Clear communication has to happen before you touch clay. The minute you need to do something over to get it right any money you might have made is gone (or at least halved).
  5. Like
    DirtRoads reacted to GEP in Turning your hobby into a business   
    The best advice comes from people with years of first hand experience with selling. I have seen lots of second hand advice being peddled, and it always come across to me as "this person has clearly never tried the advice their peddling." Second hand advice is always over-simplified, as if the person thinks there are formulas and paved roads to follow. Those don't exist! 
  6. Like
    DirtRoads reacted to Min in Neil Estrick's video - grab some popcorn   
    Sending out congrats to @neilestrick for the video he has up on CLAYflicks! (I'm going to use your method of tumble stacking pots in totes for sure.)
    Way to go Neil! 
    Video snippet below from "Neil Estrick's Efficient Packing for Art Fairs"

    Neil Estrick's Efficient Packing for Art Fairs
  7. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from Callie Beller Diesel in Is it possible to make a living?   
    Runescape  from day 1 launch lvl 126 for 4 years until they changed game
    World of Warcraft TBC to CATA.   Came back for Vanilla Classic.   Playing WOTLK Classic now (3 accounts .... omg what is wrong with me, but you can buy lvl 70 boosts now lol)
    Elder Scrolls Online -  Off & On since Beta.   I have 7 end game characters in that game.   I always go back to that game.
    I didn't watch TV for like 20 years and played games instead.    I have a timer and it goes off after 6 hours of playing.   Usually, I log off at 2 or 3 hours now days .. voluntarily. 
  8. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from Kelly in AK in Is it possible to make a living?   
    Runescape  from day 1 launch lvl 126 for 4 years until they changed game
    World of Warcraft TBC to CATA.   Came back for Vanilla Classic.   Playing WOTLK Classic now (3 accounts .... omg what is wrong with me, but you can buy lvl 70 boosts now lol)
    Elder Scrolls Online -  Off & On since Beta.   I have 7 end game characters in that game.   I always go back to that game.
    I didn't watch TV for like 20 years and played games instead.    I have a timer and it goes off after 6 hours of playing.   Usually, I log off at 2 or 3 hours now days .. voluntarily. 
  9. Like
    DirtRoads reacted to Callie Beller Diesel in Is it possible to make a living?   
    Okay, I know this is off topic, but I gotta know which one(s). I did not have you pegged for a gamer!
    In the name of not derailing the thread entirely, I am also noticing sales returning to more normal levels this season. I think everyone’s feeling the interest rate increases, as well as the increases in all manner of goods across the board, and it’s making them choose luxury goods/gifts more carefully. The things I noticed were selling the most were all gifts under 50, and I went through an unusual number of ornaments and small dishies this year. 
    I just finished my largest show of the year, and the general consensus among the vendors was that the landscape is changing after the last 2 years. A lot of people had to spend the money that they’d set aside for show fees on daily living expenses, so they had to choose the shows they started up doing again with more care. There were a lot of folks that went over pre-pandemic numbers to see which shows were actually profitable, and which ones they’d been doing just because they were looking at gross take, not net. I know a few potters that after doing the math, and decided it was more profitable to take on shipping work. Usually those folks had some solid digital marketing assets and practices in place, so it’s not a solution that works for everyone. But it’s something to consider.
    The ones that did this noted that you can charge for shipping on each item, and you don’t incur the shipping cost (except for bulk purchasing packing materials) until the item sells. With shows, you incur the cost of doing the show regardless of how much stock you sell. So that means if you’re trying to incorporate all your business costs into your COGS pricing, show expenses wind up being a variable rather than fixed percentage of the cost. If you’re selling a large volume of work, that percentage is more easily absorbed, but if you’re not producing at that volume for a wide variety of reasons, it’s something to be aware of when you’re compiling data.
     
     
  10. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from Chilly in Is it possible to make a living?   
    This is going to sound terrible.   My best employee quit a few days ago because I thought i had made instructions clear about colors but guess I didn't.   I think I've just reached my limit in being a tactful manager.  Well, she could only glaze for the last year or two anyways.  I'm down to just Me in the studio ... and it's the happiest I've been in years.   I'm going to do all the making and glazing.   I'll have one person 3 days a week out front ... wed, thurs, friday waiting on customers and making jewelry.  That's all I really need out there.      Down 2 full time employees in the back now and I'm actually looking at more profit.   Almost zero production loss and the profit per sale is literally around 75 - 80% vs 20%.     The jewelry and fragrance sales way more than pay for the front studio labor.   I'm looking forward to the next year.   Just ordered 4000 pounds of clay and 8 gallons of glaze.    Plus I just got another 50 pounds of dry glaze.  Going to order my other dry glaze tomorrow.   So there will be no backing down
    I'm sticking to this.    The numbers look really good.  Just the thought of only needed to load 2, maybe 3 kilns a week is delightful and I can make a really good profit on that.  Better than before.   I figured out each back studio employee was costing me the profit on at least 1 kiln.   So I was doing 2 .. even  3 kilns just to pay people.     I am so looking forward to this.   I'm actually enjoying the work back there now.   
     
  11. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from oldlady in Is it possible to make a living?   
    This is going to sound terrible.   My best employee quit a few days ago because I thought i had made instructions clear about colors but guess I didn't.   I think I've just reached my limit in being a tactful manager.  Well, she could only glaze for the last year or two anyways.  I'm down to just Me in the studio ... and it's the happiest I've been in years.   I'm going to do all the making and glazing.   I'll have one person 3 days a week out front ... wed, thurs, friday waiting on customers and making jewelry.  That's all I really need out there.      Down 2 full time employees in the back now and I'm actually looking at more profit.   Almost zero production loss and the profit per sale is literally around 75 - 80% vs 20%.     The jewelry and fragrance sales way more than pay for the front studio labor.   I'm looking forward to the next year.   Just ordered 4000 pounds of clay and 8 gallons of glaze.    Plus I just got another 50 pounds of dry glaze.  Going to order my other dry glaze tomorrow.   So there will be no backing down
    I'm sticking to this.    The numbers look really good.  Just the thought of only needed to load 2, maybe 3 kilns a week is delightful and I can make a really good profit on that.  Better than before.   I figured out each back studio employee was costing me the profit on at least 1 kiln.   So I was doing 2 .. even  3 kilns just to pay people.     I am so looking forward to this.   I'm actually enjoying the work back there now.   
     
  12. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from Callie Beller Diesel in Is it possible to make a living?   
    This is going to sound terrible.   My best employee quit a few days ago because I thought i had made instructions clear about colors but guess I didn't.   I think I've just reached my limit in being a tactful manager.  Well, she could only glaze for the last year or two anyways.  I'm down to just Me in the studio ... and it's the happiest I've been in years.   I'm going to do all the making and glazing.   I'll have one person 3 days a week out front ... wed, thurs, friday waiting on customers and making jewelry.  That's all I really need out there.      Down 2 full time employees in the back now and I'm actually looking at more profit.   Almost zero production loss and the profit per sale is literally around 75 - 80% vs 20%.     The jewelry and fragrance sales way more than pay for the front studio labor.   I'm looking forward to the next year.   Just ordered 4000 pounds of clay and 8 gallons of glaze.    Plus I just got another 50 pounds of dry glaze.  Going to order my other dry glaze tomorrow.   So there will be no backing down
    I'm sticking to this.    The numbers look really good.  Just the thought of only needed to load 2, maybe 3 kilns a week is delightful and I can make a really good profit on that.  Better than before.   I figured out each back studio employee was costing me the profit on at least 1 kiln.   So I was doing 2 .. even  3 kilns just to pay people.     I am so looking forward to this.   I'm actually enjoying the work back there now.   
     
  13. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from Kelly in AK in Is it possible to make a living?   
    This is going to sound terrible.   My best employee quit a few days ago because I thought i had made instructions clear about colors but guess I didn't.   I think I've just reached my limit in being a tactful manager.  Well, she could only glaze for the last year or two anyways.  I'm down to just Me in the studio ... and it's the happiest I've been in years.   I'm going to do all the making and glazing.   I'll have one person 3 days a week out front ... wed, thurs, friday waiting on customers and making jewelry.  That's all I really need out there.      Down 2 full time employees in the back now and I'm actually looking at more profit.   Almost zero production loss and the profit per sale is literally around 75 - 80% vs 20%.     The jewelry and fragrance sales way more than pay for the front studio labor.   I'm looking forward to the next year.   Just ordered 4000 pounds of clay and 8 gallons of glaze.    Plus I just got another 50 pounds of dry glaze.  Going to order my other dry glaze tomorrow.   So there will be no backing down
    I'm sticking to this.    The numbers look really good.  Just the thought of only needed to load 2, maybe 3 kilns a week is delightful and I can make a really good profit on that.  Better than before.   I figured out each back studio employee was costing me the profit on at least 1 kiln.   So I was doing 2 .. even  3 kilns just to pay people.     I am so looking forward to this.   I'm actually enjoying the work back there now.   
     
  14. Like
    DirtRoads reacted to GEP in Is it possible to make a living?   
    @DirtRoads About 10 years ago I was doing a lot of wholesale work and feeling overwhelmed by the workload. So I sat down with my accountant and said “I think I need an employee” with the intention of creating an EIN and a payroll system. But my trusty accountant said, without pausing at all “DON’T DO IT.” He said I would spend all of my time being a manager instead of a potter, I would make the same amount of money, and I would be a lot less happy. He told me to restructure my business so I could handle it by myself instead. I took his advice and started phasing out my wholesale accounts, and got rid of them completely in a year or two. And started doing more and better shows. Now I make fewer pots and a lot more money. And I’m much happier than I was. 
    I figure he has 100+ clients, all self-employed and small businesses, and he has seen all of the mistakes that business owners make. It’s a common fallacy, that a bigger operation can make more money. And being a manager really sucks! It’s far more valuable to be selective and to say “no” to things that aren’t really productive. It’s great to have someone in my corner who has that kind of perspective. 
  15. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from Roberta12 in Is it possible to make a living?   
    This is going to sound terrible.   My best employee quit a few days ago because I thought i had made instructions clear about colors but guess I didn't.   I think I've just reached my limit in being a tactful manager.  Well, she could only glaze for the last year or two anyways.  I'm down to just Me in the studio ... and it's the happiest I've been in years.   I'm going to do all the making and glazing.   I'll have one person 3 days a week out front ... wed, thurs, friday waiting on customers and making jewelry.  That's all I really need out there.      Down 2 full time employees in the back now and I'm actually looking at more profit.   Almost zero production loss and the profit per sale is literally around 75 - 80% vs 20%.     The jewelry and fragrance sales way more than pay for the front studio labor.   I'm looking forward to the next year.   Just ordered 4000 pounds of clay and 8 gallons of glaze.    Plus I just got another 50 pounds of dry glaze.  Going to order my other dry glaze tomorrow.   So there will be no backing down
    I'm sticking to this.    The numbers look really good.  Just the thought of only needed to load 2, maybe 3 kilns a week is delightful and I can make a really good profit on that.  Better than before.   I figured out each back studio employee was costing me the profit on at least 1 kiln.   So I was doing 2 .. even  3 kilns just to pay people.     I am so looking forward to this.   I'm actually enjoying the work back there now.   
     
  16. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from GEP in Is it possible to make a living?   
    This is going to sound terrible.   My best employee quit a few days ago because I thought i had made instructions clear about colors but guess I didn't.   I think I've just reached my limit in being a tactful manager.  Well, she could only glaze for the last year or two anyways.  I'm down to just Me in the studio ... and it's the happiest I've been in years.   I'm going to do all the making and glazing.   I'll have one person 3 days a week out front ... wed, thurs, friday waiting on customers and making jewelry.  That's all I really need out there.      Down 2 full time employees in the back now and I'm actually looking at more profit.   Almost zero production loss and the profit per sale is literally around 75 - 80% vs 20%.     The jewelry and fragrance sales way more than pay for the front studio labor.   I'm looking forward to the next year.   Just ordered 4000 pounds of clay and 8 gallons of glaze.    Plus I just got another 50 pounds of dry glaze.  Going to order my other dry glaze tomorrow.   So there will be no backing down
    I'm sticking to this.    The numbers look really good.  Just the thought of only needed to load 2, maybe 3 kilns a week is delightful and I can make a really good profit on that.  Better than before.   I figured out each back studio employee was costing me the profit on at least 1 kiln.   So I was doing 2 .. even  3 kilns just to pay people.     I am so looking forward to this.   I'm actually enjoying the work back there now.   
     
  17. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from Bam2015 in Is it possible to make a living?   
    This is going to sound terrible.   My best employee quit a few days ago because I thought i had made instructions clear about colors but guess I didn't.   I think I've just reached my limit in being a tactful manager.  Well, she could only glaze for the last year or two anyways.  I'm down to just Me in the studio ... and it's the happiest I've been in years.   I'm going to do all the making and glazing.   I'll have one person 3 days a week out front ... wed, thurs, friday waiting on customers and making jewelry.  That's all I really need out there.      Down 2 full time employees in the back now and I'm actually looking at more profit.   Almost zero production loss and the profit per sale is literally around 75 - 80% vs 20%.     The jewelry and fragrance sales way more than pay for the front studio labor.   I'm looking forward to the next year.   Just ordered 4000 pounds of clay and 8 gallons of glaze.    Plus I just got another 50 pounds of dry glaze.  Going to order my other dry glaze tomorrow.   So there will be no backing down
    I'm sticking to this.    The numbers look really good.  Just the thought of only needed to load 2, maybe 3 kilns a week is delightful and I can make a really good profit on that.  Better than before.   I figured out each back studio employee was costing me the profit on at least 1 kiln.   So I was doing 2 .. even  3 kilns just to pay people.     I am so looking forward to this.   I'm actually enjoying the work back there now.   
     
  18. Like
    DirtRoads reacted to Mark C. in Is it possible to make a living?   
    The places that make it best do instruction/classes and sell clay and materials/equipment. Workshops can also be a draw. They can be private or co-op  with a board of directors but all  require many people and lots of organization 
    In terms of being a potter only well that takes time and the right personality and drive
  19. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from Callie Beller Diesel in Is it possible to make a living?   
    Have you tried this approach?   I've done it for probably 8/11 years I've been in pottery.    And I am going back down to a just ME.   This has been extremely hard.   You do reach a point where you make really good money but you are constantly hawking production and keeping the merchandise churning out.   I've come down from 8 to about 1.5.   Today I dropped to about 1/2 employee.   I work less and see more money for me with less.   I can make a lot with a 8 person crew, but I'm working about 90-100 hours a week.   It's a lot of pressure .. or you will actually lose money.     I'm thinking I will have 1 person 2 or 3 days a week this year.  And see how it goes.
  20. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from GEP in Is it possible to make a living?   
    Have you tried this approach?   I've done it for probably 8/11 years I've been in pottery.    And I am going back down to a just ME.   This has been extremely hard.   You do reach a point where you make really good money but you are constantly hawking production and keeping the merchandise churning out.   I've come down from 8 to about 1.5.   Today I dropped to about 1/2 employee.   I work less and see more money for me with less.   I can make a lot with a 8 person crew, but I'm working about 90-100 hours a week.   It's a lot of pressure .. or you will actually lose money.     I'm thinking I will have 1 person 2 or 3 days a week this year.  And see how it goes.
  21. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from Callie Beller Diesel in Becoming an LLC   
    Okay I've used Legal Zoom.   I've had 50 or more LLC's.   In different states, MS, LA, TN, AL, AR, GA, TX.    It's dependent on state.   You have to file with the secretary of state and  I've found Legal Zoom lays it out for you.
    We've only used lawyers for LLC's that had partners outside the family ... several years ago when I had mall stores and outside investors.   My brother, niece and I have quite a few active LLC's for different interests  (my niece is a lawyer in a really big firm but we don't use her firm to do those). 
    You want it for taxes?  I've always found Legal Zoom adequate.   Or I have registered a few myself directly with the state of Mississippi. 
  22. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from Callie Beller Diesel in Is it possible to make a living?   
    What have I seen that makes people fail in all businesses, not just pottery?
    1.  Not enough financial backing
    2.  A product offering that does not offer a definitive advantage or defining attribute that differentiates the product from competing product.  In pottery, you have got to have visual appeal.   I'm not trained enough to know or apply a  high level of skill but I KNOW it when I see it.  Sales appeal.    If you have such a level of skill, there is a definite audience you HAVE to reach.   And that's a whole other set of issues.
    3.  Not getting the distribution worked out.   I consider online/social media to be a part of of the distribution.   It goes beyond being simply promotion. 
    Price is usually not an issue as long as you have a cost based model for a starting point.      You have to start at cost and go up from there ..... getting to the high end of perceived value is not ususally a cause for failure although I did consult with one client that have outright laughable  price points.    Price exceeded perceived value by a land slide.
    As for promotion, it's all mostly social media, mailing list.   Very few specialty businesses use traditional forms of advertising now.
     
     
  23. Like
    DirtRoads reacted to GEP in Is it possible to make a living?   
    In my experience, teaching is not a good way to supplement your income as a potter. Teachers get paid very little! Even if you are a star who can teach weekend workshops that command a high fee, the ceiling on income is very low compared to how much you can earn for making/selling pots at a good quality art fair or craft show. Teaching is also very time-consuming, if you care about a doing a good job that is. I did one workshop near the end of the pandemic, only because there were no shows to do at the time. I enjoyed it, just to be around people again. But the amount of work and the pay involved is not something I would choose over doing shows. 
    The pay for teaching weekly classes to recreational potters is even worse! When I reached a point in my pottery business where I could no longer teach weekly classes AND keep up with demand for my pots, it was a no brainer to drop the classes. I can see how it might be worth it if you OWN the classroom studio and also teach the classes, but not if you are just an employee.
    These days I produce video lessons and sell them online. Once a video is finished, the income is almost totally passive. It’s the only way it makes sense for me to do it within my schedule. 
    I don’t have experience teaching college level ceramics. I can see that the income/benefits/stability would actually provide a meaningful living. But I suspect that this is more about being an academic than a potter. Not better or worse per se, just not the same. I taught college level graphics courses a long time ago, and I found the academic environment to be very unpleasant. And the amount I was being paid to teach those classes was much less than I was making for my design work. 
  24. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from GEP in Is it possible to make a living?   
    What have I seen that makes people fail in all businesses, not just pottery?
    1.  Not enough financial backing
    2.  A product offering that does not offer a definitive advantage or defining attribute that differentiates the product from competing product.  In pottery, you have got to have visual appeal.   I'm not trained enough to know or apply a  high level of skill but I KNOW it when I see it.  Sales appeal.    If you have such a level of skill, there is a definite audience you HAVE to reach.   And that's a whole other set of issues.
    3.  Not getting the distribution worked out.   I consider online/social media to be a part of of the distribution.   It goes beyond being simply promotion. 
    Price is usually not an issue as long as you have a cost based model for a starting point.      You have to start at cost and go up from there ..... getting to the high end of perceived value is not ususally a cause for failure although I did consult with one client that have outright laughable  price points.    Price exceeded perceived value by a land slide.
    As for promotion, it's all mostly social media, mailing list.   Very few specialty businesses use traditional forms of advertising now.
     
     
  25. Like
    DirtRoads got a reaction from GEP in Is it possible to make a living?   
    I've haven't checked this board much over the past few years.   But this question is ALWAYS here.    Some people can but MOST can't seem to.   I've watched them come and go (and go and go) over the years.  I got my first kiln October 1, 2010.    I had my initial investment covered and prepared for 3 years of financial losses.    But this business started positive cash flow in about 16 months (1st 4th quarter in my free standing location).   I am free standing retail and use very little social media.   I do one flea market/craft show 2 times a year but I have decreased my effort there.  Been asked lots of times to teach classes and have never even considered it.   I'm had  up to 8 employees.      Now, I have 2 part time. 
    This business is like any other business.   Actually, I think it's easier than something like a retail gift shop or floral shop (I've had both).   "What do we need in order to do it?" you ask.    Number 1 thing you need is financial backing or put more simply MONEY.
    I did not start on shoe string.   BUT, you can see my expansion on my website and I can tell you that I paid for all the expansion out of cash flow.   I have 4 kilns now.   (only really need 2 or 3 now).  I bought the first one with investment money and I think I bought the 2nd one too out of personal money (can't remember).   Everything since that first year is from cash flow.  
    What makes me the most money?  Selling more or doing more of the work myself?   I see more net profit from my own efforts.   I have cut back revenues some and don't plan to add any more employees.   The 2 I have left will add up to about 1 full time next year.   Until September I had 3.     I reached a point where I was putting out 7/8 kilns a week   ($1k to 1.2K a load).   I'm not in that ball park now and sales have tapered off.   But my net is higher and cash flow is higher.   I've seen my bank account go up in traditional months where it dips.
    Three times I've almost had this business sold but it fell through.   I'll probably work here till I can't walk (maybe 10 more years?)  making a really nice supplemental income with total employee hours adding to less than 20 a week.   I actually enjoy the making more than overseeing.   I should add that I do a really good jewelry business (all import findings and some straight imports) and a pretty good fragrance business.   I won't be giving up jewelry.   The materials for candles, lotions, soaps have sky rocketed.   This year, I had enough back stock I only bought about $400.   From a category that will sell about $50k so it will be a very very good cash flow year from that.   I'm not sure I'll reinvest because I think there is a limit as to how much customers will pay for that category.  
    Handmade pottery sales are holding quite well as is my fashion jewelry this year.
    I am not displeased with the financial output of this business over the last 12 years.    One thing it does yield an extremely high ROI .. return on your investment for capital equipment, materials,  even including the real estate purchase I made for my location (including all start up costs).     I wouldn't say it  yields an extremely high ROI on your time.    I actually can make more $$$ doing retail consulting (which I limit so as not to neglect the business).    Also, the leverage factor, what you net from the efforts of employees, is not the most attractive ratio compared to the other straight retail businesses I have owned.    I've always done pretty well in retail but I do see retail tapering off in the upcoming years.   Thankfully, I won't depend on retail a sure outlet.  
    Good luck and read the photo story on my website that somewhat chronicles my journey.   I think it can still be done ... but as I said .. MOST people that start it won't succeed.   But Cheers to those that do.     SOMEONE will make it.   Will that someone be you?   (might add that I did start this business with quite a bit of business, finance and academic experience)
    Sharon Grimes
    http:..dirtroadspottery.com
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