Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Or really, any octagonal type gas kiln? Even info on conversions, or links to previous threads that might pertain? My Google fu is not working. (I'm tired, and it's almost Spam Hour.) What are they like to work with? How badly do they fall apart? In this area, I am new. Just as context, I had someone suggest to me today that it might be a cheap way to get out of my local city run arts centre. They're great and all, but their fee structure is not set up for anyone wanting to start a business. $500 to fire 30 cubic feet of work (bisque and glaze together, not separately) is far too steep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndham Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I started with an Aim updraft 10 cu ft kiln with 3 burners in the center bottom with a bottom shelf about 6 in above the burners. It worked fine for bisk and could only get to cone 7-8 with bottom hotter than top for glaze firing, it was a great learning tool. If possible find a manual on the internet or call Olympic for instruction on firing,and shelf placement. There's a learning curve that is going to take some time but it's only Gas($$$) and pots($$$$) and time. A gas updraft will work well and not fall apart on you as long as you are reasonably careful. Study how they fire their kiln, ask question, take notes before you head off on your own. Wyndham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Here are links to some clayart discussions of the Olympic kiln: http://www.potters.org/subject19630.htm http://www.potters.org/subject82731.htm http://www.potters.org/subject22813.htm http://www.potters.org/subject06219.htm I have no experience with them; from reading other blogs, etc., I do, however, see the kiln is often retrofitted by owners -- usually burners. They seem to regularly come up for resale as used . . . which indicates folks either don't like them, move up to bigger kilns, or draw your own conclusion. Converting an electric . . . here is one persons effort: http://codyopottery.blogspot.com/2009/10/electric-to-gas-conversion-birth-of-my.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Here is one more link: http://www.creativecreekartisans.com/creativecreek_upkiln.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 These are notorious for firing uneven. The more burners the better-if you buy one. as noted there has been many a post on them from unhappy firings. Thats said if you have glazes for cool spots and hot spots then you may have a better experience as the unevenness can be worked with. I feel these kilns are poor solutions for high fire kilns and have never met a happy camper with one yet. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I know a guy who fires all of his work in one of those, but it's a real struggle. As mentioned above, he has to put certain glazes in certain spots to account for the unevenness. You'd be better off converting an old electric by adding a downdraft flue. The old square Amaco models work well for that because they have a thick enough case that you can weld to it. They're super heavy and a bear to move, though. I did one for a friend 15 years ago and she's still using it. I welded a chimney to the back side and put a small burner on each side of the chimney. She fires to cone 10 and reduction cools in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I'll say it really isn't my first choice of a road to walk. There are a few reasons it's under consideration: 1) I currently know of no Canadian based manufacturers of pottery kilns, either electric or gas. There is a gap in the market at the moment. This means we buy American, and pay a lot of freight and import tax, effectively doubling the list price. At least. 1a) There are no existing rules that govern gas kilns specifically. I got passed around quite a bit at my municipal zoning office when I inquired about appropriate permits. One guy wanted to call it a shed. (!?!) 2) building a kiln in an urban setting has become problematic in recent years, because of new enforcement of existing gas code. This has been brought on by workplace accidents in industrial settings, most notably the oil patch. It used to be we could work on the "ask forgiveness rather than permission" plan in order to build a gas-fired kiln. There are burners available that are designed specifically for gas kilns that are CSA compliant, but the cost of having them CSA approved on an industrial scale is prohibitive. A licensed gas fitter can still purchase them to install in a homemade kiln, but you then have to get CSA to come to your kiln site to see your kiln be fired, and they will then approve it, as long as it doesn't explode. For this sticker they put on your kiln, you get the pleasure of paying them a rather large fee. The reason this has been deemed necessary is because kiln burners of a certain output are considered industrial equipment. Whee. 3) a gas fitter that knows kilns has told me that I could squeak a small enough (11cu ft) kiln in under residential code, particularly if it was on a temporary sort of hook up to my existing natural gas line, kinda like a natural gas barbecue on steroids. This would effectively group a kiln in with large outdoor fireplaces. So this way I have a safe, still inspected installed kiln for about $3000-$5000 instead of $20,000. (Ironically, the gas company will install a larger meter for free, because they want to help you to be able to buy as much of their product as you could possibly want. ). It is a short term solution, but it might enable me to make enough pots to invest in something more suitable and long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 And thank you for all of those links! Exactly what I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Canadian made electric kilns . . . one of the best, too. http://www.coneartkilns.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Seems like lots of good reasons to go electric. Plus the fact that cone 6 oxidation is AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diz Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I have an Olympic Torchbearer 2831 and have fought with it for years. Can't say I have ever gotten any real support from Olympic other than 'you are on the right track.' Mike, at Continental Clay, has been a godsend with info. But I am getting reduction, and able to better control my heat rise, altho I still rarely get my bottom shelf above cone 8 and very rarely can I get reduction on the bottom shelf.. I know my glazes so it is loaded accordingly. I use the car oxy sensor as my oxy tester and fire using LP. Make sure your bottom shelf is about 5" above the floor, put baffles to redirect 2 flames under the shelves, and use a shelf as a baffle, directly below the top port with about 1.5" between top of shelf and bottom of lid. I use 1/2 shelves throughout the kiln. Bottom 2- 1/2 shelves are together, throughout the rest of the kiln, use 1/2 shelves with a 1" channel open all the way up the center. I'm getting pretty good results now but it has taken a while to learn my kiln. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo_heff Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 The cone arts are made in Toronto and are all CSA approved : do that! The hassle of of gas kiln will not be worth it, and you will need to get a CSA field inspection which costs some bucks and highly unlikely that they will approve a updraft gas kiln. Think Bob Dylan circa 1965 : time to "go electric" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I am embarrassed I forgot about cone art! Gas and electric code are two different entities, and electric code is a lot more straightforward to get a kiln approved, in that there are actual provisions for pottery kilns under it. Gas code...notsomuch. I do indeed admire a lot of the layering and surface design that goes on at cone six and under, but it's really not how my brain works. I have a huge admiration for the aesthetic, and I see a lot of value and merit in working at lower temperatures. But with respect for all the amazing work that comes out of cone six and under, If I had any interest in going electric, I would have by now. Atmosphere is a huge part of why I do what I do. And raku doesn't cut it when function is important. The so called hassle IS worth it to me, if not to someone else, and I am willing to undertake it. My ideal situation is to wind up with a downdraft kiln, between 10-20 cu. ft, probably four burner fired with natural gas. Again, since we are talking ideal, hard brick interior, and soft brick exterior so I can experiment with an idea I have about saggars and soda, and eventually convert it outright. It will be housed in outdoor kiln shed in my back yard. I want to make a living at this, not have an expensive hobby. I am looking at building into the ideal, but I need to find a toehold starting point. Things that have been considered include: -Kickstarter- type campaign to raise adequate funds -ordering a Bailey through a company that owns and leases heavy equipment to industry, so that I can write the lease payments off as a business expense (my clay supplier has experience doing this specifically with kilns, and it is common business practice in my home town for a number of things) -rat bagging a cheap-@ss updraft kiln (!) to make enough pots to pay for The Dream -purchasing one of 2-3 gas kilns currently available locally for a song, finding a gas fitter I can bribe with beer and hooking it up without the City knowing, and bribing my neighbours with spiffy pots to not tell them about it. There are some fairly obvious pros and cons to each of those options. (And no, I'm not seriously considering that last one!!) I'm just trying to weigh all the options thoroughly, and the aim of the original post was just to gather info on one of them. If anyone sees a possibility or combination that will lead to a GAS kiln, I'm all ears. Thank you to everyone who has offered their suggestions and experience. All of it is valuable information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Geil makes a nice-looking medium duty fiber gas kiln that is not too costly. Located on west coast, CA. http://www.kilns.com/index2.htm And they are certified for Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Geil kilns are awesome . Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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