Gas Kiln Continued

[neilestrick]

I've built many a kiln with the burners on either side of the chimney. It's not a problem accessing them as long as the kiln isn't backed up against a wall, which it shouldn't be for fire safety reasons. It's nice having the burners there because you won't be tripping over them when loading from the front. And it makes for good circulation since they won't be aimed toward the flue wall.

Leave room for bag walls. You may need them to help with evening out temps top to bottom.

[Rae Reich]

 I was assuming an overbuilt, double thick stack. 

[postalpotter]

First can I use the bricks? What is the point of continuing  with the build if the HB's I have will not work for a kiln. The floors are laid, the ports and flue are set and I was coming up with the walls.

 I have 8 ft of riser tube for the stack and I had estimated 50 HB's for the flue box. All being built with Pinehall  cheap brick. I have everything, all the necessary parts to build this kiln except the shelving and props.  

 

I looked at ITC 100 HT and ITC 200 EZ will that help or should I try to get my money back for the brick and put everything else in storage until I can get the right brick?

I start vacation next week and I took this time off so I could experiment with lighting what is now becoming a huge regret! 

[neilestrick]

According to the Pine Hall web site, you've probably just got pavers or house brick of some sort. I don't see anything on there that says they deal in refractory brick. Go through their site and you can probably find out which type you have. As for using them for the kiln? I wouldn't No telling what they'll do.

[postalpotter]

The bricks are a Superior Clay product,  I spoke to a tech and was told that these are medium duty fire brick  and are only rated to around 1800 deg.  Masonry Products said they will take then back. I am so tired of moving bricks! 

Has anybody seen my paddle?

[postalpotter]

Well I found other bricks. I will have to have them shipped to me. I am looking for some advise on the depth of the floor. I am building the Flat Top that is in Mel Jacobson's book. The floor is built with a layer of HB, a layer of IFB's and another layer of HB. This on top of a  base of cement backer board and a stack of cinderblocks to gain the height for ease of loading. I was going to use a layer of split HB, a layer of fiber blanket and then a layer of the full HB's. This on top of a layer of blanket then the cement backer board.

 Now that I can get the right bricks for the job how should I build the floor? Do I need it as thick as I was building it or can I get away with a layer of fiber mat then a single layer of HB's for the floor or do I need more depth then just a single layer of brick?

 

 

[postalpotter]

22 hours ago, Mark C. said:

I'm now wondering of you have fireplace hard brick not high fire hard brick. The two ways to tell are high fire hard brick have stamped names on the flat side-do yours? Where did your hard bricks come from?That will answer this for me usually.

and the color is usually a bit different than true stamped hardbrick . The fireplace bricks are usually no name and are slightly irregular brick to brick (Not made to hardback standards)If you have fireplace bricks -forget about using them in the lower part of kiln near any burners or flame trench as you call it.

The port 4 1/2 x4 1/2 is fine no need to taper.Just keep it the same size.Whats keeping the flame in the trench from going out the exit flue straight away?I call those bricks bag walls.

I'm assuming your two burners are on the back wall?

To help us a floor detail would really help.Maybe a friend with a phone can e-mail you a photo and from there you can post it?as its on your computer.

Mark,

 I want to THANK YOU. I haven't the slightest idea what I would have done if I had built this thing and then had those bricks fail on me. Without a kiln my wheel is useless and my dream dies.

Again thank you!

[Mark C.]

I’m at an art show selling pots until Monday so I’m not wanting to type this out on my phone

ill check in on my I pad at some point

for now I would not repeat not use 1800 degree bricks in a kiln no where no way

if the bricks do not game a stamped

name on side they are low temp bricks

as to the floor you could use these under a layer of soft bricks but I would not as if they fail there goes the whole deal 

forget the crushed fiber in floor as it will not help when smashed 

most under build floors with just two layers I like 3 and the first could be your low duty then two layers of hard or soft or a combo

two layers are a minimum for floors and yes use some cement board on your base layer of whatever you will be using

i like heavy expansed steel matting

heavy gauge as the floor is one area you do not want to under construct on

your small remark on brick size not the same gave up the whole story to me

this may be easier with a phone call than me typing all month would you like me to pm you my phone number for a call next week?

[postalpotter]

Thanks Mark

Do you ever sleep? As long as I know what is needed I will be ok. Two layers of hard brick is what I will order.

I may have to make a trip and purchase more IFB's but I will suffer the expense and get two layers of HB brick.

Thanks for the phone offer I think I may save that for when I fire the kiln.

[neilestrick]

Definitely do 3 layers in the floor. You can lose a lot of heat there with only 2. Do not use fiber anywhere it can be crushed. Once it's crushed it's pretty much worthless.

[Mark C.]

I totally agree on the layers as Neil says

use those low temp bricks on first layer then two more layers

one can be soft brick 

[Mark C.]

20 hours ago, postalpotter said:

Thanks Mark

Do you ever sleep? As long as I know what is needed I will be ok. Two layers of hard brick is what I will order.

I may have to make a trip and purchase more IFB's but I will suffer the expense and get two layers of HB brick.

Thanks for the phone offer I think I may save that for when I fire the kiln.

I’m going camping outback in desert in two weeks for a week 

does that count as sleeping?

[postalpotter]

Not if you do it with eyes wide open and get all caught-up counting stars.

[postalpotter]

Okay they will pick-up the 1800deg. bricks today and I have ordered more HB's.

There is a saying around here that if you want to find out who your friends are  get a load of mud. Nobody show up any more to help me move bricks! ;) 

The kiln plans call for M board to use as a damper and the base for the stack.  From what I can find M board is an insulation  product but where do I find it ?

Or do I use a $35 kiln shelf?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[neilestrick]

13 minutes ago, postalpotter said:

Okay they will pick-up the 1800deg. bricks today and I have ordered more HB's.

There is a saying around here that if you want to find out who your friends are  get a load of mud. Nobody show up any more to help me move bricks!

The kiln plans call for M board to use as a damper and the base for the stack.  From what I can find M board is an insulation  product but where do I find it ?

Or do I use a $35 kiln shelf?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kiln shelf.

[Mark C.]

build your damper around a kiln shelve size-its best to have the shelve in hand -this is where some hard brick splits work best as well.I would use a  3/4 or 1 inch thick shelve as they hold up better.

[oldlady]

Postalpotter, not being interested in ever building a gas kiln, i have been reading this thread just for fun  this morning, i think i noticed something.   it appears that  you already have some fiber and you are just itching (yes, pun) to use it.  since you have been repeatedly told NOT to use it in your planned kiln build, why not use it to make a raku kiln?  maybe you have so much that you can make a number of them and sell them to other potters so you can afford to buy the right kind of brick for your future gas kiln.  they are simple to build and shown in several versions online.   having seen the wire frame like the Bracker style, i can tell you they work very well.

mark and neil have gone overboard to help you so why not mail a brick, once you have the correct type, to each of them so they can approve them for your intended use.  a few dollars for a  post office priority mailer would be a good investment in something you will be able to use for many years.   call it insurance.

[postalpotter]

Wow, why the backhanded slap old lady?  What went wrong Friday to turn you into such a mean sprit?

 Where am I suppose to learn how to do this? Had one semester at the local community collage before the nursing program took it over. I am not here asking how to throw a mug or formulate a glaze.  I have no kiln, I have made  the mistake of going down this path and I will see it through. I will succeed in learning what I  need  to but I will have  questions. If you have nothing to contribute to my better understanding  of this whole ordeal then  why post? 

 I now have the correct HB's. The walls are almost completed I need to figure where to place the peep holes? I should have the frame welded by Tuesday and I hope to  have the roof finished Friday. 

  Still haven't purchased the shelves or props

 I have a raku kiln, built a top hat a few years ago after my first class. I  like using it but without a way to bisque fire my stuff I was just not ever going to take the next step as a potter. Taking my pieces  into town and waiting for space in someone else's  kiln just doesn't cut it.

[oldlady]

not a slap, just a suggestion.   if you read the whole list of posts, your insistence on fiber is obvious.  there are people who ask for advice and then refuse to take any suggestions at all, it seems like you were doing that.   mark and neil are true professionals and should have some respect paid for their excellent advice, taking a lot of time and trouble to help you out.  

[Mark C.]

What is your plan for a roof?

[postalpotter]

13 hours ago, oldlady said:

not a slap, just a suggestion.   if you read the whole list of posts, your insistence on fiber is obvious.  there are people who ask for advice and then refuse to take any suggestions at all, it seems like you were doing that.   mark and neil are true professionals and should have some respect paid for their excellent advice, taking a lot of time and trouble to help you out.  

Send them bricks for approval?

If you were to read the whole post I said that Niels Lou really likes fiber and suggests that along with the hardener it is a good choice. I am building his Minnesota Flat Top an I am taking great care to make all the joints  tight but when ever I blow out the inside you can see buffs of dust come from between the IFB's. Lou's MFT uses forced air, because I have a limited budget I am using Mark Ward's duel venturi burners so I am limited in sq. ft.  & BTU's. If I can keep kiln gases and heat from escaping  from the wall is that not a good thing?  I do not know, that is why I ask and then  decide on how to preceded with my next step.  I have yet to add the fiber but?

 I have a question about peep holes? I will use cone packs on the shelves with the ware but can I have a few packs sitting in a recess in the wall? Could I sent the packs in a 2in. recess? Will that give me a good reading of internal temps? I am thinking of 6 peeps. 2 in the door, 1 on each side of the exit flue above the intake ports and 1 on each wall above the trench? I just want to do a couple of recessed packs not all the peeps but?

Was never an art student.

Mark welcome back, wouldn't have stumbled across an old lost Dutchman would ya?

The IFB flat top is my roof.   Off to get my angle iron and my rods in a minute.

[postalpotter]

the picture is upside down!

[Mark C.]

Forget about recessed cones o the walls-=bad idea-put cones on shelves with pots so as thats where they NEED to be. They tell the story of the pots/glaze not the wall temps.

Two peeps in the door is all you need.1 low and 1 high-you stack the load so they line up with the holes so the bottom one is easy as its on the fixed bottom shelve. The upper one is best on the shelve below the very top shelve .Thats a bit harder to figure.

6 peeps is to many . You only need to see the two cone packs-you can add extra packs(and you should) to measure whats happening but you do not need to see this while firing.

 

[neilestrick]

Yep, I agree. Just two peeps. One top, one bottom, on the shelves.

[postalpotter]

thanks again 

2 it is!