Skutt KM1227 Er01 only reaching ~950

[Ja.Sc.]

Hello!

I'm having trouble with my kiln getting up to temp.  Haven't gotten it to fire up to temp at all.  
I've replaced the elements, which were at least a decade old probably 15yrs, and have measured Ohms, Top to Bottom: 13.7,14,16, 16,13.7,13.7 
There were way to many holes in the lid and floor which I'v temporarily plugged with clay until I get this sorted. Currently 3 top holes and 2 bottom holes

Kiln lid seems to have a tight fit, only one spot that would just take a slip of paper.  

I did just notice today that it's running on a 50amp breaker and not the 60amp as listed in the manual.

What would be the next things to check? 

Edit to add: Down draft vent system

Edited January 7 by Ja.Sc.
additional details

[neilestrick]

@Ja.Sc. It's not normal to have any holes in the lid and floor other than the very small holes for the vent system. Were they just vent sized holes, like 1/4"?

The breaker size will not affect the firing, however the breaker may trip. If you have the correct size wiring (6ga) then you can just swap out the breaker for a 60.

Have you run a paper test to make sure all the elements are heating up? Place a small piece of paper on each element, let the kiln run for a bit, just enough to make the paper smolder, then turn it off and see if all the papers have burned a little. If both element in a section have not heated, then you've probably got a dead relay in that section. If that's the case, replace all the relays. Also check the condition of the wiring in the control box. If the wiring or connectors are starting to darken go ahead and put in a new wiring harness when you do the relays.

[Ja.Sc.]

Thanks @neilestrick, ran the paper test all pieces of paper started to singe.  
Yes the holes are 1/4” vent holes.  The previous owner had drilled 8 in the top and 6 in the bottom.  

[neilestrick]

13 hours ago, Ja.Sc. said:

Thanks @neilestrick, ran the paper test all pieces of paper started to singe.  
Yes the holes are 1/4” vent holes.  The previous owner had drilled 8 in the top and 6 in the bottom.  

Which error code did you get? Might have a relay that's sticking when it gets hot. Does your kiln have 5 louvers at the top of the control box or 6? If it's got 5, then it uses the clear relays, and you can see if they're getting really dark and worn out.

[neilestrick]

15 hours ago, Ja.Sc. said:

Thanks @neilestrick, ran the paper test all pieces of paper started to singe.  
Yes the holes are 1/4” vent holes.  The previous owner had drilled 8 in the top and 6 in the bottom.  

What voltage are you running it on, and do you have the correct elements for that voltage?

[Ja.Sc.]

8 hours ago, neilestrick said:

Which error code did you get? Might have a relay that's sticking when it gets hot. Does your kiln have 5 louvers at the top of the control box or 6? If it's got 5, then it uses the clear relays, and you can see if they're getting really dark and worn out.

ERR1 is the code

The relays are still clear for the most part, the 1-2 relay has a slight discoloration on one side, but still mostly clear

5 hours ago, neilestrick said:

What voltage are you running it on, and do you have the correct elements for that voltage?

It seems this is the problem. Only getting 120V.  Elements are correct - 240V 1 P 

 

Thank you @neilestrick! 

[neilestrick]

31 minutes ago, Ja.Sc. said:

It seems this is the problem. Only getting 120V.  

Only 120V from the breaker?

[Ja.Sc.]

19 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

Only 120V from the breaker?

The electrician I used to run the wire installed a 14-50R receptacle, which blame falls on both parties for not clarifying that I needed the 6-50R.   No problem, I got the proper outlet and switched it out. Problem, I hooked up two ground and one hot.  Anyhow, just got those switched around and the outlet is now pulling 240V.  Fingers crossed for a hot kiln. 

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, Ja.Sc. said:

The electrician I used to run the wire installed a 14-50R receptacle, which blame falls on both parties for not clarifying that I needed the 6-50R.

14-50 R is still a 4 wire device rated at 50 amps. Just checking you are squared away seems your electrician is not familiar with a 3 wire 240v circuit. You should have: A 2pole 60 amp breaker, #6 wire and three wires are run, 2 hot wires (L1&L2) and a ground wire (No neutral for this type of circuit). Must have a ground though to protect you.

No skimping, these are the manufactures requirements.

[Ja.Sc.]

14 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

You should have: A 2pole 60 amp breaker,

It’s a 2pole 50 amp breaker.  I’ll have this replaced before I fire it up

[Dick White]

5 minutes ago, Ja.Sc. said:

It’s a 2pole 50 amp breaker.  I’ll have this replaced before I fire it up

Do not replace the 50 amp breaker with the required 60 amp breaker unless the wire is 6 ga. or better.

[Bill Kielb]

40 minutes ago, Ja.Sc. said:

It’s a 2pole 50 amp breaker.  I’ll have this replaced before I fire it up

 

33 minutes ago, Dick White said:

Do not replace the 50 amp breaker with the required 60 amp breaker unless the wire is 6 ga. or better

Dick has a great point remember no skimping!  As long as we are covering the electrical bases, the ground wire is considered an equipment ground. It is sized based on the maximum load on the circuit - 60 amp breaker- and should be sized a minimum gauge by checking in table 250.122 (NEC). Your electrician should know this and verify, but a 60amp Equipment ground needs to be #10 or larger copper wire by memory but don’t trust my memory - double check. No skimping here either.  Come to think of it ALL the wire needs to be copper, JIC he is using or planning on something else.

[Ja.Sc.]

It is #6 copper wire for all three wires, this I know I confirmed with the electrician. 

[Ja.Sc.]

8 hours ago, Dick White said:

Do not replace the 50 amp breaker with the required 60 amp breaker unless the wire is 6 ga. or better.

@Dick White should this say “if” not unless?  I can’t tell if because it’s 6ga. it should be replaced.  Thanks.

[neilestrick]

3 hours ago, Ja.Sc. said:

@Dick White should this say “if” not unless?  I can’t tell if because it’s 6ga. it should be replaced.  Thanks.

60 amps uses 6ga wire.

[Ja.Sc.]

Ah. That just clicked.  I will proceed with the 60amp breaker.  Thanks all. 

[Bill Kielb]

42 minutes ago, Ja.Sc. said:

Ah. That just clicked.  I will proceed with the 60amp breaker.  Thanks all. 

Just so you know a little of the where and why of all the caution here,  electricians seem to have difficulty sizing breakers and wiring for kilns. The general rule for kilns (known as a continuous resistive load)  is simple in that not less than 125% of the rated load, nor more than 150%. Your kiln is 48 amps so a 60 amp breaker and wiring is recommended by the manufacture and fits this rule.
For everyday stuff, Electricians are usually taught never to load a breaker more than 80%. Brand new from the store, they are rated at 80% of their load. In your case a 50 amp breaker typically would only be used for a 40 amp load following this rule……... So that ……. somehow a 50 amp breaker was used coupled with the initial 120v hookup of a 2 pole breaker raises flags as to how it was all done.