ailita Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Hello everyone, I started throwing last year but I didn't have a lot of time so I was on and off the wheel. I just bought my own wheel and now that I have a lot of spare time I will be focusing on throwing but also experimenting. I am thinking of making some colored clay to get some marble effects. A lot of potters use mason stains or oxides that they mix to wet or dry clay. But I was wondering about the food safety, let's say I am making a mug using a white and black (colored with manganese) clay, is it going to be food safe if I use a transparent glaze that is food safe ? When oxides are covered with an appropriate glaze, are there any risks ? Also, some people add mason stains and oxides to transparent or white glazes to color them, same question about food safety. As you can see I am too scared to poison anyone Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 I would say in general colouring the clay and glazing with a transparent gloss is going to be the safer option for the end user but there's so many variables in pottery that there's no one size fits all answer. https://digitalfire.com/picture/L9hivqD172 On this page Tony says "Stains are inherently much safer to use than raw metal oxide colorants because they are sintered as colorant/stabilizer blends. And much less is needed." So it is possible to make a black/coloured glaze that's food safe but it requires testing. ailita, Hulk and Rae Reich 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulk Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Engobe covered with a liner glaze might be another safer option. I'd thought Hansen's reference to stains and safety had to do with safety for the potter in the process, but on that page he did line the ware with a black glaze*. The colorants are the same thing once all melted, whether supplied via stain or raw material, is that true? The stain is safer to handle. The potter's safety, that's important too! Hansen typically (what I can see) liner glazes and makes an argument for it, Liner Glaze (digitalfire.com) *black glaze, for which he makes a case, in keeping with "Liner glazes can also be colored (if they are well tested and demonstrably non-leaching)." ailita and Rae Reich 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) I feel it is similar to the way we are making metal oxides safer by forming them into a glass with silica and alumina but the stain is already doing some of that for us. I am unsure if in melting the glaze it then breaks down whatever crystal matrix they formed in the stain and releases metal oxides into the melt, I assume that is more temperature related and the hotter you go the more metal oxide is release and no different to using raw oxides except in the % of the recipe as stains seem to need less for the same colour. There is a bit on his stains page that says "These processes render them more resistant to dissolving in glaze melts, or melting themselves, compared to the metal oxides from which they are made." https://digitalfire.com/glossary/ceramic+stain Edited February 23, 2023 by High Bridge Pottery Hulk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 So there’s a few points here I think. First, safety, and next practicality. All of the below assumes you have your heart set on a black and white marbling combo at cone 6 (1200 C) in an electric kiln. Safety:Most of the risks involved in pottery are to the potter, not the end user. Your exposure to any of those materials is going to be greater than anyone who’s using the end product, because the materials aren’t bonded to anything the way they are in fired ceramic. That’s not to say that there are no risks, or that you don’t have to mind your chemistry so you have a stable glaze. But your safety is the most at risk in this scenario. Worry a little about your customer, but worry more about your own health. Because the example is Manganese, most of that oxide’s dangers come from inhalation. Humans only absorb about 5% of the manganese they swallow, and it’s not absorbed through the skin. (Source cited here). So if you are not working next to a kiln full of manganese glazed wares while it’s firing, and you’re using good housekeeping practices that reduce airborne dry clay that uses manganese as a colourant, your chances of injury are lowered. That said, if you’re firing in reduction, using iron in any form as a colourant would be a much safer option if you don’t mind a very dark brown/warm black colour (disclaimer to come). If you’re firing in oxidation, a stain is safer than manganese. Stains are designed to be more stable/less harmful than certain colouring oxides, and they create colours that are harder to get with oxides alone. They’re not soluble in their unfired form, so you don’t absorb them through your skin or anything like that. Some still contain spinel, so breathing the dust is still bad for your lungs, but only in the same way dry clay is. From a practical standpoint, If you’re making marbled clay by adding a colourant to a white clay body, this is the best method to ensure pieces don’t crack apart along the marbling lines. So what are the pros and cons of manganese, iron and black stain? Iron and manganese are both pretty inexpensive. Iron is a lot safer to use for the potter than manganese, but doesn’t give a true black by itself. Both however, will off gas a lot more than a stain will. Black clay has been very popular the last few years, but all of them that use manganese or umber are prone to bloating if fired to cone 6 (roughly 1200 C). Manganese dioxide begins to break down into manganese oxide at 1080 C. This turns it into a more active flux, leading to bloating. The release of extra oxygen bubbles all creates a lot of pinholing or glaze blistering that is pretty difficult to resolve in an opaque glaze, and will make a clear glaze cloudy with micro bubbles. The few clays that I’ve seen that use iron or iron containing minerals don’t bloat any more than a normal red clay body would if overfired. But you’ll still have issues if you’re using a clear glaze because of that clouding. You can get a clear glaze to go *mostly* clear over an iron bearing clay, but it’s a lot of work and testing. If you use a black mason stain in particular, they’re pretty refractory and don’t have any Loss On Ignition values, so that means they’re not loosing gasses. Solves all of those above problems, but they do cost a bit more. Hulk, Rae Reich, Min and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ailita Posted February 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 Thank you so much for all the detailed answers. In the studio I go to or the workshops I followed, we were never told about the hazard of dry clay, oxides etc. I'm planning on setting a small studio at my place, whether it's for me or the others I'd rather be too cautious than not enough. At least I know now that I have to use a respiratory mask when handling powders. I'll try to use stains as much as possible since they are less harmful. Hulk and Callie Beller Diesel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted February 25, 2023 Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 Most of our hazards involve dust or fumes, and are easily mitigated with simple good housekeeping, outdoor glaze mixing whenever possible, and wearing a properly fitted respirator when handling dry materials. Many oxides, including manganese, are perfectly fine to use regularly as long as you know to take a few simple precautions about keeping dust down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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