Old Superfire Kiln

[Amyluvz2laughh]

Hi!! First of all I’ve been secretly stalking the wealth of information on this page for the past few years. Thank you for having me! I was recently blessed with a “super fire kiln”(photos attached) by reward ceramics but I can’t find any manual or information regarding this kiln.. if anyone has a direction they can point me that would be amazing? I also switched out the elements with a generic version and it seemed to heat up just fine. My next question is that safe? Being that I can’t find any information on the company to order replacement parts specific to the kiln? The kiln also says it draws 25.1 amps( 240v) would this be within code to run on a 30amp breaker specially for it or would I need to upgrade? I did check the wiring on the kiln sitter and they seemed to be in tack other than the rusty nails inside that I switched out. I guess any information anyone is willing to share I'm all ears. 

[Bill Kielb]

The label shows 25 amps 1P (single phase) so the kiln is 25 X 240v  = 6000 Watts.

Generally by code

• Breaker size minimum = 125% of rated load => 1.25 x 25 = 31.25 Amps, so no a 30 amp will not work
• Max size breaker = 150% of rated load => 1.5 x 25 = 37.5 amps
• Breaker required for this kiln as rated would be a 35 Amp 2 pole breaker
• It is strongly suggested to have your electrician pull / run the appropriate wire which ought to be # 10 copper  (90c) or for the less  voltage drop (and if running non metallic cable)  #8 copper (90c) and terminate with an appropriate plug and receptacle or disconnect switch.

As long as the replacement elements match the resistance of the original elements then the information above should apply.

Some other thoughts
This is a sitter kiln with a safety timer and it appears two infinite switches to be manually ramped up for a desired schedule. It’s definitely not hard, do you have any experience in this regard?

 The kiln fires to cone 9 which if used for cone 6 firings will give reasonable element life.

Not sure what rusty nails are, so maybe post some clear pics of the wiring, interior of the kiln and the infinite switch knobs and folks will have more observations.

So hopefully that is a start.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Bill Kielb

[Amyluvz2laughh]

Hi Bill, 

thank you for the information. I have an electrician coming out today to give me an estimate on adding the extra amps and possibly adding either the #10 or #8 copper, I’m not sure if the wires are metallic or not - but he should! This is my first kiln so I’ve been watching tons of videos on YouTube on using a kiln sitter.  From what I can see the kiln sitter moves freely the only potential issue I can foresee is the need for calibration. But then again I’ve yet to fire it so I guess I would figure that out during the first firing?  I also attached photos of the inside and the wiring of the kiln sitter. Thank you so much!! 

[Amyluvz2laughh]

Just now, Amyluvz2laughh said:

Hi Bill, 

thank you for the information. I have an electrician coming out today to give me an estimate on adding the extra amps and possibly adding either the #10 or #8 copper, I’m not sure if the wires are metallic or not - but he should! This is my first kiln so I’ve been watching tons of videos on YouTube on using a kiln sitter.  From what I can see the kiln sitter moves freely the only potential issue I can foresee is the need for calibration. But then again I’ve yet to fire it so I guess I would figure that out during the first firing?  I also attached photos of the inside and the wiring of the kiln sitter. Thank you so much!! 

 

[neilestrick]

It's very clean! Fire it up and see what happens.

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, Amyluvz2laughh said:

From what I can see the kiln sitter moves freely the only potential issue I can foresee is the need for calibratio

Highly recommended free resource (love Sue for that)  https://suemcleodceramics.com/how-to-calibrate-your-kiln-sitter-for-accurate-firings/ I suggest downloading and keep it for future reference. It’s very complete and well done IMO.

LOOK AT THAT OLD ANALOG PYROMETER!!!!!! very cool and by design if it has not been jostled a bunch might still be fairly accurate. The thermocouple acts as a battery to drive the meter so if mechanically sound, probably reasonably accurate. WOW!

Edited November 16, 2021 by Bill Kielb

[Mark C.]

That wire should be a #8 or larger not a #10

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, Mark C. said:

That wire should be a #8 or larger not a #10

I should look at my amp  table, but #10 thhn 90c  I think fills the bill if my memory is right at 40 amps. I do like heavier is better though, #8 definitely helps with less voltage drop.

***Just looked,  I think you are right under 240(D) regardless of temp 30 amp is still the max on #10 as a small conductor breaker size limit, after that 240(d) is silent. #8 it should  be ……. if the 2020 240(d) is still current. Nice catch! Not sure in Florida though, his electrician is coming so that should work itself out.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Bill Kielb

[Mark C.]

#12 wire for 20 amps

#10 wire for 30 amps

#8 wire for 40 amps

#6 wire for 50-60 amps

worked as an electriction for a few years and these are in my head still

these are for copper conductors as well

[Amyluvz2laughh]

Hi everyone. Thank you all for you input!!! So on to the next issue . My elements do not match the resistance. From my calculations they should be at 9.6ohms and measuring 14 ohms. I reached out to Euclid’s to make custom elements that will match the voltage and watts to create the correct resistance ( sorry I’m not technical or any kind of electrical savvy).  Fingers crossed it all works out! I will definitely keep the thread updated as I go!! Thank YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!!!  

[Amyluvz2laughh]

Hey okay next update! Euclid’s doesn’t have any 14G wire due to shortage but I was told they can make me them out of 13g wire which he said is still heavy duty.. does that make a difference? 

[Bill Kielb]

3 hours ago, Mark C. said:

#12 wire for 20 amps

#10 wire for 30 amps

#8 wire for 40 amps

#6 wire for 50-60 amps

worked as an electriction for a few years and these are in my head still

these are for copper conductors as well

Me too,  section 240.4 does not apply to # 8 or greater. Now you can use the wire amp chart with corresponding temperature with one twist, most connections are rated 75c so that ends up as your limit. Things change, doggone it!

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, Amyluvz2laughh said:

Hey okay next update! Euclid’s doesn’t have any 14G wire due to shortage but I was told they can make me them out of 13g wire which he said is still heavy duty.. does that make a difference? 

13 gauge should be heavier than 14, I would think they would last as long or  longer unless the spacing becomes an issue. I would not have an issue with it other than it might cost you more. Did he specifically say it won’t last as long ?

[neilestrick]

The thicker would be good, but there are a lot of other considerations when making elements. I'd trust Euclids opinion though. If they think it'll work then do it.

[Amyluvz2laughh]

1 hour ago, neilestrick said:

The thicker would be good, but there are a lot of other considerations when making elements. I'd trust Euclids opinion though. If they think it'll work then do it.

Everything is becoming pretty pricey  but I ordered the thicker gauge from Euclid’s and he knew the exact model of kiln I had so I’m confident that they will be good. I also have the electrician coming back this week to up my amps and fix all the wiring to make it compatible. So my fingers are crossed that everything works out like I imagine! 
 

my next question for all you wonderful people is on ventilation. DO I absolutely positively need it? The kiln will go in the garage. Now the garage is attached but I imagine I’ll fire during the early mornings and running through the day while my kiddo is at school. I can open the garage door and my back door I also have windows. Floor is cement and the walls are brick so I figure 18 -22” away from any combustible surface is doable? Another person mentioned using a fan that’ll help circulate any toxic fumes out. Anyhoo… I just want your opinion so I can make a justifiable decision so when my elements do get here I can fire away … if my pieces don’t overly dry in the waiting process 

[Amyluvz2laughh]

4 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

13 gauge should be heavier than 14, I would think they would last as long or  longer unless the spacing becomes an issue. I would not have an issue with it other than it might cost you more. Did he specifically say it won’t last as long ?

It was a bit more pricey but I decided to pull the trigger . The 13 G had a really long wait time 4-8 weeks so I decided to accept the 14g. He didn’t say it wouldn’t last long I just questioned based on power but he said it shouldn’t effect the power. I’m excited so we shall see!! 

[Bill Kielb]

2 hours ago, Amyluvz2laughh said:

I just want your opinion so I can make a justifiable decision so when my elements do get here I can fire away … if my pieces don’t overly dry in the waiting process 

You are in Florida so What initially strikes me is a fan blowing out is effective and entirely doable ……… and likely necessary to remove the heat. Don’t blow air in as it will pressurize the space ever so slightly which will then find its way into the home. So in the near term I think being judicious, very doable with a decent box fan and eventually if all is good then contemplate installing a hood for the kiln and separate fresh air inlet in a window or garage wall so you won’t need the door open always. 

There are issues to plan around that we can’t know, like is your hot water heater in the garage and is it gas? If so, reasonable care needs to be used when you go with a full exhaust system so as not to suck the fumes back down the flue. Easy to design around, and not much of a concern with the doors open and the box fan but once an exhaust is put in then reasonable practical design thought needs to go into it.

I actually did this for a friend in the Orlando area and we used a wall shutter fan in the wall behind the kiln and a fresh air inlet on the opposite wall to cross ventilate. In his case we needed about 600 cfm with 85 degree outdoor temps to remove all the heat so he installed an automatic variable speed  20” shutter fan, digital so it has its own thermostat and speed control and was under 300.00. He tries to run his kiln so that at peak kiln temp, it’s reasonably cool outside. It has worked well for him.

To remove all or most of the heat you will need 400 - 600 cfm, not much way around this.

Anyway lots of ways to do this, safely if thought out and the simple box fan gets you a start. You never know you might want to move it out onto the patio if covered and screened.

In my experience a number of ways to do this effectively. As far as clearance, reasonable distance from combustibles, 12-16” usually is fine. Your garage walls are likely drywall or real stucco / block. Just common sense, no flammables,  open gas cans etc…..

Edited November 18, 2021 by Bill Kielb

[Amyluvz2laughh]

Hi Bill, I wanted to thank you for all your help and expertise. I had the electrician come and run a fresh copper wire. I received the elements from Euclid’s and I fired yesterday and it went wonderful. I hit a 04 bisque in about 5 hours … guessing it’s the new elements plus correct voltage and power. I also added the fans going out to not pressurize heat in the garage. It went great because it was actually really chilly here in Jacksonville so I didn’t smell no toxic fumes and the room wasn’t hot. The water heater is thankfully electric and more than 6 ft from where the kiln is located and yes garage walls are block like and the floor is concrete. I’ll keep the post updated as I go but i anticipate my glaze fire will go well.  Any advice on holding heat in a manual kiln?  Anyways thank you so much , I really appreciate all the help!! 

[Amyluvz2laughh]

On 11/17/2021 at 5:08 PM, neilestrick said:

The thicker would be good, but there are a lot of other considerations when making elements. I'd trust Euclids opinion though. If they think it'll work then do it.

Hi Neil, Yes they work great. They fit perfectly in the grooves I didn’t even need pins to hold them which is good considering she’s probably a dinosaur in great shape. Thank You because I got the advice to contact Euclid’s from an older post I seen! THANK YOU!! 

[Amyluvz2laughh]

Hi Everyone! Having a new issue. I’m noticing my element pigtails are lighting up at the connection inside the kiln sitter. This is new since I’ve gotten the elements from Euclid’s. I’ve attached a picture, maybe someone can enlighten me to what can be done … if anything.  

[Bill Kielb]

Clear picture with daylight is in order.to see why this splice is glowing. Definitely address before running this, glowing elements in the kiln, that’s OK, glowing elements outside, generally not good.

[JFB]

On 11/16/2021 at 5:08 PM, Bill Kielb said:

Highly recommended free resource (love Sue for that)  https://suemcleodceramics.com/how-to-calibrate-your-kiln-sitter-for-accurate-firings/ I suggest downloading and keep it for future reference. It’s very complete and well done IMO.

LOOK AT THAT OLD ANALOG PYROMETER!!!!!! very cool and by design if it has not been jostled a bunch might still be fairly accurate. The thermocouple acts as a battery to drive the meter so if mechanically sound, probably reasonably accurate. WOW!

I have the same kiln.  Looking for a wiring diagram.  The wires to the pyrometer are old, the casing is broken, and it is not connected to the kiln's electrical system.  Don't know where the connection point is.  Must admit that I haven't looked closely.

[Bill Kielb]

Generally available on kiln website with make and model. Amy’s kiln was a super fire so I do not believe anyone found a wiring diagram for it. A closer look ought to reveal where the thermocouple lead came from or connects to. If not obvious post a picture or two of your situation and back of the controller / pyrometer you suspect it used to connect to..

Edited November 24, 2023 by Bill Kielb