Brand new Paragon elements not seating properly during installation - blowtorch?

[Msheffield]

I just replaced the elements in my ancient A82-B Paragon top-loading kiln, and while the wires went in fairly easily, and I made sure to press each crimped part into each corner, there are areas that seem too tight and won't sit down into the grooves. I've watched numerous videos on replacing elements, and either the wires stretch easily (mine are quite stiff), or seem more pliable and sit easily, so they aren't very helpful, but I did see one incomplete video in which the person said she was going to come back with a blowtorch to help the elements seat better. Any tips on doing this? Just don't want to wreck my new elements! 

[neilestrick]

As you lay the element into the groove, you have to give it a little bend at the corner to get it to fit. It won't just lay in there with a soft bend, especially on a smaller kiln like that where the corner is a sharper angle than a big kiln. Sometimes you also need to stretch the element just a hair between the corners to add a little more length so it'll sit in. Also don't be afraid to apply a little pressure to get them to sit down. You shouldn't need to torch them.

[Bill Kielb]

4 hours ago, Msheffield said:

Any tips on doing this? Just don't want to wreck my new elements! 

This might help it’s my experience
If the elements are in and pretty even you can torch them into the corners and simply heating the corner joints often will make them grow into the corner nicely. A propane torch will not really get hot enough to hurt them with a little reasonable care. You can heat the element till it’s glowing red right at the corner joint and they will settle in quite a bit without even pushing on them.

This is an old technique to reset  elements that have fallen out of the grooves. After an element ages a bit it becomes too brittle without heating,  The  caution is to try and make sure it’s done evenly and the coils do not touch when you are done. When an element is heated red, it is very soft and very easy to move so resetting them in the grooves after they have grown out takes a little practice but is super easy to do.

With new elements you can just heat the element in the corner, let it grow evenly on its own and pin them after for a super custom fit or any persistent  difficult areas . I have shown folks how to do this in the studio and ages 18 - 80 have found it to be very easy. So much so we worried about them being safe with the torch more so than resetting the element.

Paragon has a video on resetting elements using a torch https://youtu.be/1zYmjtr0akk

 

[Msheffield]

5 hours ago, neilestrick said:

As you lay the element into the groove, you have to give it a little bend at the corner to get it to fit. It won't just lay in there with a soft bend, especially on a smaller kiln like that where the corner is a sharper angle than a big kiln. Sometimes you also need to stretch the element just a hair between the corners to add a little more length so it'll sit in. Also don't be afraid to apply a little pressure to get them to sit down. You shouldn't need to torch them.

Good to know, thank you. I was able to get them relatively seated, so I am trying a test firing and will make adjustments after that. I tried bending and stretching with limited results.

[Msheffield]

2 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

This might help it’s my experience
If the elements are in and pretty even you can torch them into the corners and simply heating the corner joints often will make them grow into the corner nicely. A propane torch will not really get hot enough to hurt them with a little reasonable care. You can heat the element till it’s glowing red right at the corner joint and they will settle in quite a bit without even pushing on them.

This is an old technique to reset  elements that have fallen out of the grooves. After an element ages a bit it becomes too brittle without heating,  The  caution is to try and make sure it’s done evenly and the coils do not touch when you are done. When an element is heated red, it is very soft and very easy to move so resetting them in the grooves after they have grown out takes a little practice but is super easy to do.

With new elements you can just heat the element in the corner, let it grow evenly on its own and pin them after for a super custom fit or any persistent  difficult areas . I have shown folks how to do this in the studio and ages 18 - 80 have found it to be very easy. So much so we worried about them being safe with the torch more so than resetting the element.

Paragon has a video on resetting elements using a torch https://youtu.be/1zYmjtr0akk

 

Interesting - do you think the test firing will do the same? I was able to seat them all relatively, with a lot of effort, and I'm doing the test firing now, so hopefully I will only have to do minor adjustments afterwards. Thanks for the tip about the bulging elements - in my case they seem too tight mostly, and while I could take up slack, I had more trouble creating length once the element was already in the groove. 

[Bill Kielb]

45 minutes ago, Msheffield said:

Interesting - do you think the test firing will do the same?

Yep, eventually they will seat. The torch thing works anytime you need to move an element neatly, bulging or positioning.

[Msheffield]

13 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

Yep, eventually they will seat. The torch thing works anytime you need to move an element neatly, bulging or positioning.

Most things seated during the test firing, so that's a relief. On one or two corners the elements are not protruding but are close to level with the outside brick, so I'll try the torch on them soon. Thanks again!

[Mark C.]

Best to set them before firing as they get more and more brittle over time firing