Cameo Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Hey all! I'm still needing some help with my "new" old mama kiln. There's a few pics of her below so you know what kind of kiln it is. It's a 3 prong power cord (see pic) and the seller gave me the outlet that fits it. Says it's a non-grounding 50 A-125/250V outlet. I'm trying to get all the grunt work out of the way before having a professional install the 60 amp breaker. I ran a 6 gauge 3 wire cord through the ceiling from the breaker box to the garage (about 25 feet or a little less). The 3 wire cord has a ground too but the outlet is non grounding... so I'm just confused and frustrated y'all. I had to bring back a 2 wire+ground cord once I read that the outlet is non grounding and get a 3 wire but now I don't know what to do with the grounding wire.... The wire on the plug that corresponds to the space in the outlet marked as neutral (white) is green. Then there's white and black. The wire I ran through the ceiling is red black and white + a copper ground.... I could not find a non-grounding 6 gauge wire or else I would have purchased that instead.... So look at the pictures if you will and help guide me, please!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameo Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 here are pics of the kiln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameo Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Outlet pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameo Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 The wiring to the kiln only needs 3 wires total- two hots and a ground. Wire up the outlet so the prongs match- the green will be the ground, the black and white are the hots. As for the wire, did you run the flexible plastic conduit through the ceiling all the way from the breaker box to the kiln? If you haven't already, I would check if that meets code, or if they require a metal conduit. Around here I don't think that would be allowed. @Bill Kielb do you have some insight on that? Also, since you're running this out to the garage, it would be wise to put in a fused disconnect box near the kiln, so you don't have to run into the house to the breaker box to shut it down in an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameo Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 @neilestrick OK. Thank you. That's so frustrating because I already ran a cord with 3 wires through the ceiling but removed it because someone else told me I needed 3 insulated wires. My little skutt was so much easier to wire up... The internet says that the green in the power cord is a neutral and a return path that carries the current back to the source so I thought it made sense that it would need to be insulated in the cord in the ceiling. The conduit only runs from where the wire comes out of the wall in the garage to the outlet. In the ceiling I just drilled big ass holes through the beams. The conduit is what home depot recommended but it would be easy to replace it with metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameo Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 I want it to be safe, so forgive me for asking, but would it be OK to just screw the non-insulated copper wire in the cord to the metal outlet box and the same thing on the other side and use the insulated white as the ground then? I just really don't want to pull this dang cord back out of the ceiling and go back to home depot for the 6th time. I'm so frustrated but my little baby skutt kiln just isn't powerful enough for what I need anymore. It was fine when I rarely fired anything and ceramics was a hobby but now this is my livelihood and I need the big kiln to be up and running like yesterday. Ive been working at it for a few weeks and I feel just as lost on it as ever. So. Damn. Frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 @Cameo The green in the power cord is a ground. With two hots you don't need a separate neutral as a return path. Because the flow of electricity cycles back and forth, both hots also function as a return path. Some small kilns need 4 wires, because they separate the two hots into two separate 120 volt circuits, which then needs a neutral return path. So you just have the 4 wire cable running through the ceiling? Again, I would check with codes as to whether or not that's allowed. Not all cables are approved for in-wall use, and I wouldn't necessarily trust the guy at Home Depot. Your electrician would know for sure. Yes, you can use the insulated white as the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 When I wired my kiln, flexible conduit runs were limited to 6 feet by code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameo Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 @neilestrick ok that makes sense to me. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I'll check the code but that's how my whole house is wired and the who electrician installed the 30 amp breaker for my baby skutt kiln said that's how it's supposed to be. See pic attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameo Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 @liambesaw it's only 6 feet of conduit. The rest of it is fed through the beams of my basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 29 minutes ago, Cameo said: @liambesaw it's only 6 feet of conduit. The rest of it is fed through the beams of my basement. Very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Just want to make sure you're doing it safely and someone who knows the codes in your area has double checked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 I have a couple of suggestions-since the white wire is a hot I always tape a black piece of electrical tape on both ends of the white wire (near the breaker and the plug) to alert anyone later that this wire is a hot not a nutral-always a good practice . The other is every area has different codes-here in our county your #6 Rome x is alllowed in a wall or enclosed void as long as it cannot get smashed (like above the attic beams) and stapled near the ends or made securely-say with Romex clamps. Outside the wall it needs to be in metal conduit or plastic.that can run to a box with asurface mount plug for example . The kiln wire (from kiln to plug) with plug can be what they supply and does not need metal conduit . Since we do not know here you are or what the codes are you need to check. On that 4th red wire leave it taped off and long tucked back into boxes in case you ever get a kiln needing 110 for computer or other functions in the future )no need to cut it short.Just proctect it from getting energized with tape and tuck it back in box 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 7 hours ago, Cameo said: Hey all! I'm still needing some help with my "new" old mama kiln. There's a few pics of her below so you know what kind of kiln it is. It's a 3 prong power cord (see pic) and the seller gave me the outlet that fits it. Says it's a non-grounding 50 A-125/250V outlet. I'm trying to get all the grunt work out of the way before having a professional install the 60 amp breaker. I ran a 6 gauge 3 wire cord through the ceiling from the breaker box to the garage (about 25 feet or a little less). The 3 wire cord has a ground too but the outlet is non grounding... so I'm just confused and frustrated y'all. I had to bring back a 2 wire+ground cord once I read that the outlet is non grounding and get a 3 wire but now I don't know what to do with the grounding wire.... The wire on the plug that corresponds to the space in the outlet marked as neutral (white) is green. Then there's white and black. The wire I ran through the ceiling is red black and white + a copper ground.... I could not find a non-grounding 6 gauge wire or else I would have purchased that instead.... So look at the pictures if you will and help guide me, please!! your plug above Convention in the US would be Black = X, Red = Y, your single phase 240v definition calls for Green or Bare = W With respect to running the wire or branch circuit if you will - depending upon location in the US - it could be metallic conduit, non metallic conduit, armored cable or non metallic cable (roamex). All have rules for running and mounting. Drilling though each floor joist is also generally not great and many codes dictate where a hole is placed and how many holes. Running cord through flexible metal conduit is never allowed anywhere that I am aware of, especially as a branch circuit. Flexible (cord or metal and non metal type) terminations are almost always limited to no greater than six feet. reading through all these, I agree have an electrician verify. If your electrician however runs cord through holes cut in your floor joists then I would seek a second opinion. That is not allowed anywhere I can think of. Keep in mind, round cord is very different than non metallic cable (Roamex or range cable) though. It’s hard to tell from your pictures but it looks like black round cord has been run. Technically you need 2 hots and a ground (not a neutral) so Black (L1, phase A), Red (L2, phase B ) and ground. WireNut the white and tape it back out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Bill is spot on with the red lead -but thats why I said black tape the white if you already are using it-thats also an acceptable deal with most inspectors .WHITE is usually neutral in most cases -red and blacks are hot.That why the white wire is taped black at ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameo Posted May 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 All of this has been so SO helpful. You guys are seriously invaluable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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