Omega Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 I am currently exploring the idea of making an art peace that would require a material that can be molded into a complex form while still enduring prolonged and repeated heating. Heating equivalent to a gas fire or wood fire commonly found in the home. Ceramic seems to be the most logical option. If so i would greatly appreciate any information, impute, or advice regarding the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega Posted December 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 I would also like to add that cost effectiveness is a factor in this project. We need to create a large volume of peaces as quickly, efficiently, and cheaply as possible. With Peaces no larger then a Basket Ball and no smaller then a Golf Ball. The ability to create ceramics of varying color is also important. Again any suggestions or comments would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 Complex form? You'll need to be a lot more specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 Just now, Omega said: I am currently exploring the idea of making an art peace that would require a material that can be molded into a complex form while still enduring prolonged and repeated heating. Heating equivalent to a gas fire or wood fire commonly found in the home. Ceramic seems to be the most logical option. If so i would greatly appreciate any information, impute, or advice regarding the subject. So far; you are entering the high alumina- corderite body arena. Not sure "flame ware bodies" would tolerate your intended use. at this point I would search " flame ware clay" as Liam points out- shape will also play a big role. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyK Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 11 hours ago, Omega said: I am currently exploring the idea of making an art peace that would require a material that can be molded into a complex form while still enduring prolonged and repeated heating. Heating equivalent to a gas fire or wood fire commonly found in the home. Ceramic seems to be the most logical option. If so i would greatly appreciate any information, impute, or advice regarding the subject. What kind of temperature are you talking about? What is the actual source of the heat? Where do you plan on placing your piece/pieces with relation to the heat source? What kind of shapes are you talking about...basketball to golfball is a pretty vague description... JohnnyK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitchmss Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 It sounds like you arent terribly familiar with "ceramics" and are looking for a mass production material to fit an intended use. Without more details like how high of heat (1000 deg of consistent/prolonged heat exposure isnt a big deal for certain clay bodies), how the heat is going to "interface" with the objects you make, how you plan on making these complex forms, what the form is, etc. All important details to include. There are plenty of ceramic "chimineas" which can take the rapid and uneven heating of a wood fire, but would likely fail rapidly if exposed to direct heat from a LPG/NG burner. If your form actually is terribly complex, and you plan on casting these in molds, your molds are going to be very complex too. (complex=expensive). Some clay bodies can be reformulated to slip casting bodies, but others may not be, especially if the mold is highly complex. Ram pressing these more difficult clay bodies may yield more success, but requires a press, proper molds, and human assembly after your components are made. Unless you have a big budget for equipment, tools, materials, etc I would suggest starting small with basic forms, made by hand, and testing on your own. You're not going to produce thousands of these objects overnight, but its the only way. If you have a big budget, factory full of workers, kilns, pug mills, presses, molds, etc, then I would suggest hiring a ceramic engineer who can take a look at your actual design, and formulate a clay body, and production process to suit. While ceramic materials and clay bodies can be relatively cheap, without the accompanying equipment for a mass production option (like you suggest), then producing objects "...as cheaply as possible.." may not come to fruition for you. For example, my bigger than most hobbyists, but tiny compared to industry size kiln of 60 cu/ft costs about $8k if you build it yourself, quadruple or more that cost if you buy a manufactured unit. My pugmill, $8k, associated kiln furniture, and basic studio equipment is another $30k. Roll my whole studio up into a ball and sell it, is over 6 figures. So unless you have those things, it might be a better option to seek out a factory, which has their own ceramic engineer, and have them produce your objects. You wont have as great of a margin per object, but you wont go bankrupt trying to figure it out on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Everyone is right here, ceramics may or may not be a solution. Then again refractory cement might be more appropriate but considerably less artistic. It’s hard or harder to make ceramic tolerant to repeated firings in the 2000 degree range. Even more difficult if it will be exposed to moderate swings in temperature. more info definitely needed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Included for completeness, rather than advocacy.Just to say that some googling indicates that [at least some] gas-fire "coals" are based on ceramic fibre. Which might give another possible approach: with its own technical and H&S issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnolia Mud Research Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Quoting PeterH: "just for completeness": Don't forget that all of the following items are ceramic: Fire bricks, sparkplug insulators, kiln shelves, kiln posts, element holders in a toaster, ... . all of these materials cycle from hot to cold quite frequently and have very long life cycle times. Most of these have only been used as a functional component within some object with a different name that we all routinely benefit from without thinking. Look outside the conventional pottery domain to the much wider domain of ceramics beyond just clay. There is no prohibition to using the materials to make art, all that is needed is the gumption to do it. For Omega's project, my thoughts would be to start with either 100 % kaolin or a mixture of kaolin and Kaowool. Ceramic fiber insulation compressed and coated with a rigidizer might also be a starting point. Identify the physical and structural demands required of the final product and work backwards to the starting materials. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, Magnolia Mud Research said: Quoting PeterH: "just for completeness": Don't forget that all of the following items are ceramic: Fire bricks, sparkplug insulators, kiln shelves, kiln posts, element holders in a toaster, ... . all of these materials cycle from hot to cold quite frequently and have very long life cycle times. Most of these have only been used as a functional component within some object with a different name that we all routinely benefit from without thinking. Look outside the conventional pottery domain to the much wider domain of ceramics beyond just clay. There is no prohibition to using the materials to make art, all that is needed is the gumption to do it. For Omega's project, my thoughts would be to start with either 100 % kaolin or a mixture of kaolin and Kaowool. Ceramic fiber insulation compressed and coated with a rigidizer might also be a starting point. Identify the physical and structural demands required of the final product and work backwards to the starting materials. LT Agreed! ....... and toilets fire to cone 14 and electrical insulators perform well in their realm. These are engineered ceramic items. There are many high fire ceramic products high in Alumina that perform well for their purpose. Who among us would like to make their own kiln shelves? It has been done last I saw with zircopax. I still think we need some Idea what this will be subjected to before commenting. Just last week I had to explain why the home made kiln port plugs failed again to someone who threw them from their favorite Claybody. They looked real sturdy but a few trips to cone 10 and several removals and laying them on the concrete floor seemed to doom them to several firings. more info, there will likely be more credible feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnolia Mud Research Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Bill, we are in violent agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 There are porcelain based formulas used in electrical insulators. When mixed, alumina runs up in the high 20% molar. The clay is one issue: because insulator formulas run 25-30% absorption! plus a COE that standard glazes peel off of. The reason insulators used slip. So subjecting clay to repeated high temp firing is one issue, subjecting glaze to it is another. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Nerd alert!!!! Viewer caution advised. Please be advised that content may contain meticulous and exacting details that may cause crossing of the eyes, headaches, and brain freeze. nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, glazenerd said: Nerd alert!!!! Viewer caution advised. Please be advised that content may contain meticulous and exacting details that may cause crossing of the eyes, headaches, and brain freeze. nerd ooooh me oh my, bring it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 DW actually I should have phrased that " rabbit hole alert." A deep one at that. The OP needs to give more details about this visual inferno, and the shapes they plan to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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