pleasantpotter Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 On 11/7/2018 at 2:19 PM, Susanbeau said: Callie, Can you explain what you mean about firing the toner into the glaze? Is anyone interested in purchasing a larger quantity of the more expensive paper at wholesale prices - At least 100 sheets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 My understanding is that the sepia decal process is basically finding a regular printer that has a certain level of iron oxide in the toner for the image to survive a kiln's heat. There's a fine balance between finding the point where the low levels of iron burn out and where they adhere to the glaze. I'm a long way from being an expert on the process, however. I don't know what made the Bel decal paper so special, or differentiated it from other decal papers. If anyone wants to do bulk orders or anything like that, please communicate with each other via email or DM. Terms of service say that we don't conduct business on the open forum, folks. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woundtite1 Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 This is a copy of the email I just sent to one of Ms Banhazi attorneys. In concern for all hobbyist in the USA.This frivolous lawsuit with claims to waterslide decal paper is affecting the whole community.Waterslide decal paper has been around much longer than Plaintiff Terrie Banhazl d/b/a Heirloom Ceramics.I have a question concerning this lawsuit. Are you planning on going after,Modelmaster/Revell scale models, AMT scale models, Lindberg scale model companies also? Which all use waterslide decals with their kits.The process of which waterslide decals have been used far predates Ms. Banhazi claims.This lawsuit is affecting the custom scale modeling community now that We can no longer get the proper waterslide paper.I also wonder if there will be a counter lawsuit for claims to the PROCESS in which waterslide decals are done by Ms. Banhazi. Never mind the ceramic end of it which in fact isn't anything new to the craft.People had been doing just what Ms Banhazi claims since the 70's. Thank you, Hobbyist of America.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthDaw Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 I know this stream is old, but I have read through all the comments and I am aware of the patent issue I the US. I am in Australia, so I believe this cease and desist does not affect us here. The fired on decals should be printed on a water slide paper with a flux layer on it so that it fuses with the glazed surface of the item being decorated. HP make a printer ( relatively inexpensive here) that uses iron oxide in its toner. The iron oxide does not burn off at the 820 deg c required to fire the decal.. as for someone in the States owning the process of water slide decals, I believe that companies such as Wedgwood, Royal Dalton and Delft among other have been using fired on water slide decals for at least 50 years if not more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 35 minutes ago, RuthDaw said: I know this stream is old, but I have read through all the comments and I am aware of the patent issue I the US. I am in Australia, so I believe this cease and desist does not affect us here. The fired on decals should be printed on a water slide paper with a flux layer on it so that it fuses with the glazed surface of the item being decorated. HP make a printer ( relatively inexpensive here) that uses iron oxide in its toner. The iron oxide does not burn off at the 820 deg c required to fire the decal.. as for someone in the States owning the process of water slide decals, I believe that companies such as Wedgwood, Royal Dalton and Delft among other have been using fired on water slide decals for at least 50 years if not more... It's a patent on the specific process of print at home with iron oxide toner on waterslide decal paper. Those companies don't use the same process. You can read the stipulations of the patent here: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7622237B2/en?oq=US7622237B2 Alternatively you can adjust the process slightly by using a toner that uses some other oxide like cobalt, or use some other method of transfer other than waterslide decals. As you can see the patent only applies to glazes of a glossy surface, so you could potentially use waterslide decals printed on your laser printer and apply them to any surface that is not glossy and not violate her patent. This will not stop her from suing you or her filing a takedown notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 How is the patent lasting until 2028? I thought they were only good for 7 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, neilestrick said: How is the patent lasting until 2028? I thought they were only good for 7 years? Maybe it's because it's the style of patent 20 years is standard https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_of_patent_in_the_United_States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 @RuthDaw You are correct in that the patent does not extend beyond the US, and doesn’t apply to the rest of us. She has been issuing cease and desist letters to anyone with a website detailing the information that can easily be read in the US. Think any website hosted anywhere in the world with a .com suffix. The decal paper in question does have a source in Australia that I will happily DM you, I just can’t post it openly here on this American-hosted forum, or there will be trouble For those outside the US who are interested, I can also direct you. Feel free to DM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 I still think it's utterly ridiculous that she got a patent. I knew about the process when I was in grad school in 1996. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, neilestrick said: I still think it's utterly ridiculous that she got a patent. I knew about the process when I was in grad school in 1996. Ya unfortunately you don't have to think of it first to get a patent, you just have to think of patenting first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank100 Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 Funny she claimed that she "discovered" the process approximately 10 years (Fall 1996) AFTER I was teaching this process in Taiwan at the Yingee Museum and the National University. So, how much does she owe me for stepping on my process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 16 hours ago, Hank100 said: Funny she claimed that she "discovered" the process approximately 10 years (Fall 1996) AFTER I was teaching this process in Taiwan at the Yingee Museum and the National University. So, how much does she owe me for stepping on my process? Of course you could have brought that to the US patent offices attention during the probationary period but that is long gone and I think it would take a lawsuit now to take the patent from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 I believe it is the subject of the lawsuit that is mentioned much earlier in this thread. There used to be an excellent video and article on the process posted on this site, but it was taken down. The documentation about this being an older and widely used process is extensive: she just wants to be the exclusive supplier of the decal paper Bel Decal used to sell for half the price. Because Ceramic Arts Network is listed as a defendant in that lawsuit, I think it’s safest if we keep the discussion her to legal alternatives and workarounds, not venting ire, however justified it may be. If you want to contact ICAN to offer your support, Our site admin is @Jennifer Harnetty, and she can direct you better than the moderators can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaDirtNerd Posted April 7, 2020 Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 @Callie Beller Diesel hey would you be able to send me that info of where to get the decal paper from China ? Thanks !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManwiller Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 Some of the comment below are incorrect. You are not out of luck. There are options to the single step decal printing paper process. We use the lamination paper process because it can be used for all kinds of kiln fired decals - iron oxide and ceramic - , enables various firing temperatures adding color and shade options and also because it is less expensive. I can send a video link showing the process if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManwiller Posted November 3, 2020 Report Share Posted November 3, 2020 On 12/30/2018 at 10:35 AM, Callie Beller Diesel said: In my friend's search for the proper decal paper, she tested a number of decal papers that are sold for other uses (eg nail art), and found that a number of them will work for our ceramicky purposes, as long as you fire the toner into the glaze. If someone was sufficently irritated with this situation and is willing to do the testing, it's possible to find another decal paper or two that will work. You just won't be able to get any kind of tech support from the supplier or manufacturer, and I'd suggest not letting them know what you want the paper for. They could get in trouble too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.