DirtRoads
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Posts posted by DirtRoads
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Showing the size compared to a mug. Could get a better picture. Having a photographer come here next week and get a few shots. Part of the deal is that I never post a price with any of this work. I'm not even saying this is worth the price I will be getting either. Or that this work is even "special". We agreed to them have 4 to 5 pieces in stock. And me supplying about 20-25 pieces a year. Wouldn't be making a living and I'm not giving up my other line. But, it's a new venture for me. Oh btw, both of these pieces sold now. 2nd check being mailed. They will be delivered next weekend.
I want to search and find the person here that gave me this idea so I can properly thank them.
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On 6/15/2023 at 9:47 PM, Denice said:
Lots of people want to pay more, they think it has better quality and design when it cost more. You could mark a teapot for 80 dollars and it would just sit there, mark it 150 dollars and it would sell. You might even give them a 10 percent discount, the discount makes them feel like an wheeler dealer and often becomes a loyal customer. I had a wallpaper\paint store for twenty years and quickly figured out what type of customer I wanted to sell to. Denice
^^^^ This. And they will pay more from certain venues. I couldn't get these prices on my own.
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Someone on this board once gave me the idea of having a "gallery" line in addition to my production line. I've sold a few higher priced pieces since that time. For me that's $200 - $450. Ok, I am going with this interior designer in Atlanta. They will just put my pieces in houses they do and add the price, itemized. The deal is that I will do hand built only for them. At the moment, they only want 2 colors, both white matte with accent colors. Currently they get a 30% discount from places like Restoration Hardware. They are just adding one piece per house, and are taking a 30% commission, at a price that is way way above what I would ever mark my items here. I'll post a picture of the first sale I made. I picked Atlanta because my family travels to Atlanta at least once a month. I've leaving 4 or 5 pieces with them and they will send me a check upon sale. They just mailed me a check for this item (check to avoid cc fees) and it will be delivered when someone goes to Atlanta. I'm confident this is a trustworthy source, due to the houses I've been in that they have done. I have agreed to just sign the items Sharon A. Grimes (no Dirt Roads). And I will do a small bio poster to put with the work and a website SharonAGrimesartist.com for their exclusive promotion. I will refer all calls to them. Let me go take a picture.
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6 hours ago, Callie Beller Diesel said:
If you're building your own website, use one that's designed for e-commerce. If I were building from scratch, I'd tell people to save time and energy and go straight to Shopify. Square is less money and is serviceable if you need a lower cost entry point, but customizations are very limited. As someone with a Square website, it’s kinda ugly, t
I had a selling site for jewelry on Shopify and found it extremely easy to use. And I had a product line (A-Z) that needed 26 variants. And it worked well. This was about 3 years ago. I gave it up because my in store retail price points are close to wholesale and it was just too much trouble for the dollar amount of revenue I was getting I got on average 10 sales a day and 30 sales a day in Nov/Dec. Consider 3/4 of my line was $5. AND 75% of my store business is in Nov/Dec. Shopify was easy to set up and update. It was mostly "advanced word processing". Knowing a little about HTML was helpful. And there was some use of "Liquid". Which I had never used, but it was pretty basic (trying to remember ... think it was almost the same as HTML. Overall, a very positive experience with Shopify.
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^What Clay17 said.
Several years ago I ran a vendor mall. Several people I know have spaces in vendor malls now. I just looked at a space in Florida about 3 weeks ago. In Mississippi, Florida & Alabama, the vendor mall is required to charge and collect sales tax. If you don't add it to a sale, you have to calculate it and deduct from your gross sales price. Oh yeah, I was once in a vendor mart in Pigeon Forge, TN. They had to collect sales tax there too. Percent was 15% and we paid rent on the space Your credit card company will 1099 you at the end of the year. Here, the vendor mall is required to 1099 vendors. The 1099 here is also turned over to the state of Mississippi (I know this for fact). Might be that way in other areas that have a state sales tax.
I see sales commissions at 15% around my area. The spot I just looked at in Florida charges 20% plus 3% credit card processing (if customer pays with credit card). Plus paying rent for the space.
If you took other currency like cash or checks, there is something about banks now reporting anything over $600. Not 100% sure how this is reported. My top line is calculated from the sales reports on square. I put ALL sales on square. I use Square as a POS and enter checks and cash in addition to running my cc's. The state of Mississippi requires a sales ticket or record of your sales. Square only 1099's on the credit cards. I look at end of month sales on Square and turn this in to state of Mississippi. At the end of the year, my accountant uses this amount as my gross operating income, which is verifiable from my sales reports. You have to watch taxes from both your state and federal level. YOU HAVE TO MATCH State & Federal reported incomes.
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Yeah I ordered 4000 lbs back in November and didn't get until February. They were out of something ... I want to think they said Magnesium? Funny, I was like Mark and had just around 1000 pounds when it came in. However, this year I have ZERO employees in the back. Plus I'm supplementing with slip casted wares (like mugs and vases). I'm going to make do with this 5000 pounds for the year. I will be cutting back but have raised prices. Not running a "production" side business now, it's more supply based. Customers are willing to pay more and I continually remind them I am 65 now, and won't be doing this forever. And they are buying "extra". I tell them "if you see something you really want, get it now."
Oh I use Laguna stoneware #65, hard mixed to 7.5. I think normal is 6.2. Really have enjoyed my Laguna clay and glazes over the years. Cheers to that company! Really excellent service.
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On 3/10/2023 at 11:39 AM, Mark C. said:
Most I have learned are just not cut out for the production side of things .
^ this yes and maybe .... "are just not cut out for the "actual WORK" side of things ." A pottery business is a lot of WORK. And there is "opportunity costs". I don't really let myself think too much about this ... i.e. "could I have made more money doing something else". This is one of the reasons I went so heavy into importing jewelry to add to my pottery line. It has definitely evened out my time/profit relationship. Strangely, I really like doing the pottery now. A couple of years back, I mostly tolerated it because it was always somewhat profitable. You have a differentiated product, with high margins, that you have absolute control over. I'm finding myself enjoying the making now (well no production employees ... wish I had done this years ago).
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Actually a customer brought it in. I didn't say anything really. They were just pin holes, not like Min's piece. Thanks for sharing that btw. Very interesting. I haven't had pin holes in years. Literally years. Corrected those, once upon a time. Just wondered if this was some aspect of art I didn't know about. A lot I DON'T know about "art", seeing as I am all about functional wares. If I had a piece that looked like that particular piece, I would smash the thing. They told me it was on serve ware too but I told them that wasn't possible ..... it wouldn't be food safe.
As of late, I've had another customer wanting "copies" of the other potter. Probably because they stopped wholesaling. And if you use slip casted bisque ware, well all the pieces look the same, because they ARE. I just ignore these people and don't answer the question. As I told them, I would put out some white rabbits tomorrow (we had sold out of sets that "matched".) I avoid being publicly critical of anyone's work. But tbh, I still am puzzled at those pin holes. Yeah, I think they must have been going for an artistic effect.
I'm rethinking these slip casted pieces. I did 100% hand building before (some wheel about 7 or 8 years ago). But they are just so easy and fast to do .. quick money. Sadly, half my customers don't know the difference. I never even made mugs much before getting the slip casted mugs. I'm not really pushing myself out as an "artist". I really only look at the financial side. But always up for learning, which is why I questioned this.
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I just saw a rabbit from a well known potter that had lots of pin marks on it. I mean lots. This person told me all their pottery in that certain color had those "holes". Not really "marks" .... but holes, you know the kind you get when your glaze is off. Would anyone really want pin holes on purpose?
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You can accept Apple Pay on Square. Even some other payments, I think Cash App. When someone asks we just enter and ppl tap their card or phone and it works. So far, haven't had anything that didn't work with Square. I like Square. Seems price competitive and they charge a straight 2.6%. No difference on reward or corporate cards. Those reward cards are really high with some CC businesses. My business is about 70% CC and 30% cash. We enter both on square for tax record keeping. oh yeah Square has 25 cents transaction fee ... on less than a certain amount I think it's 35 cents.
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9 hours ago, suetectic said:
With all due respect, insert disrespectful comment, the most successful people right now are instagram(algorithm) savvy and photogenic.
Good technique and form doesn't matter near as much as it did even just 10 years ago. The people flooding youtube with shiny vidoes get traction in spite of any traditional skill set. It's great people can make pots in however manner pleases them or their buying public but lets not kid ourselves about what separates good pots from bad.
Well produced videos properly promoted will overcome a lot of what defines well made pots.
I always wonder if I should send these comments. Sometimes my honesty is poorly worded.
I wouldn't call that disrespectful. And yeah those people get a lot more hits and following than I get with just a few pictures I post. BUT, I do get some customers come in for items or send someone to get items. I certainly don't put MY photo there :). And I do have a free standing retail location that allows me to push people to the store. What I do like is that you can post to instagram and FB at the same time, just taking pictures with your phone. Around Valentine's, I posted everyday. I make it a point to post at least 3 times a week. My last post was Saturday. I'll post more when it gets closer to Easter. My last post on FB got over 4k views and I didn't check my Instagram. I get some hits on Instagram. I have considered getting a gorgeous "influencer" to partner up with me on Instagram for my jewelry. All of my pretty nieces have married and live away now. I would do it for jewelry, not pottery.
But yeah, being photogenic is probably key to be at the top. I don't work on my Instagram much but use it in conjunction with FB. Social media is a supplement to my free standing. I'm finding it more successful this year, than any previous year. But it mostly reaches current customer base but a few new customers have filtered in. And as we speak it is free. (I expect this to change)
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On 3/2/2023 at 4:21 PM, GEP said:
The best advice comes from people with years of first hand experience with selling. I have seen lots of second hand advice being peddled, and it always come across to me as "this person has clearly never tried the advice their peddling." Second hand advice is always over-simplified, as if the person thinks there are formulas and paved roads to follow. Those don't exist!
^ I had 2 responses to this: LOL (out loud) and secondly agree. This question is ALWAYS on the board. I'm agreeing with GEP that you have to be assured the "advisor" has actually reached financial viability in a pottery business.
My experience (going into my 13th year) is that there seems to be very little middle ground. Either people are successful commercially or they are not. I've seen quite a few get started and even talked to some people in my area. Most people don't stay in this for the long haul. I use a format that I see less often. I do 2 shows a year and have a free standing location. I have had up to 8 employees, and am now down to only 1 plus myself. Actually I make about the same profit. One thing I did three years ago was adding slip casted wares to my hand building pottery line. I buy these slip cast wares from an outside source and it decreased my clay production needs. It's a nice supplement. Also, I have a full jewelry line that I have 1 full time employee that stays in sales area and makes jewelry and waits on customers for pottery and jewelry sales (and a small hand crafted fragrance line that I make as my "hobby").
I like this business 200x more with no employees in the production process except myself. just got in a 4K pound drop of clay from Laguna and will use all of it this year. In previous years have used more than 10K pounds. Not sure how much I will use this year ... probably will get one more 4k drop.
In answer to your question, I don't do any online. But I've had other businesses before this and was pretty comfortable in the mechanics of establishing a destination retail business. I am a firm believer in capturing 4th quarter gift sales. Half my yearly sales are in Nov/Dec. I'm not sure I'm the best example for recommending channels. I do some consulting but could easily have enough clients to do retail consulting full time. I am always going to say "retail". But I'm not 100% sure this is a good strategy for most potters and I turn down any consulting offers for any arts and crafts businesses. Social media, at the current time, makes it easier to drive customers to a retail location than it used to be. (however, FB and Instagram have implemented changes and may well introduce more that limit the cost effectiveness of this promotion). I've written an extensive analysis of channels somewhere in these forums. I am very pleased with the financial viability and profitability of my business. I will say the ROI (return on investment i.e. equipment, materials, location set up), is exceptionally high. The biggest draw back is the ease and consistency of duplication. I see duplication more successful in slip casting than in hand building. I've had less experience with wheel work, as I dropped it years ago to keep up with the demand for my hand built wares. Avoid hiring employees until you have your process and sales channels worked out. I am also going to suggest that you approach wholesaling very cautiously. I've always thought one should choose between wholesaling and retailing. I have done wholesale in my jewelry line but have stopped because it was pulling me in 2 directions.
Cheers. Hope I get to see the survy.
Sharon Grimes/Dirt Roads Pottery
- ceramicjames and shawnhar
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This topic reinforces my decision to only buy NEW kilns.
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Can you even buy glaze now days that has lead in it?
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Hope you enjoy your reduced schedule! That kiosk was a brilliant way to capture 4th quarter sales, something a lot of potters miss. I do half my sales in Nov/Dec from my free standing studio sales location.
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On 12/10/2022 at 11:47 AM, Callie Beller Diesel said:
Okay, I know this is off topic, but I gotta know which one(s). I did not have you pegged for a gamer!
Runescape from day 1 launch lvl 126 for 4 years until they changed game
World of Warcraft TBC to CATA. Came back for Vanilla Classic. Playing WOTLK Classic now (3 accounts .... omg what is wrong with me, but you can buy lvl 70 boosts now lol)
Elder Scrolls Online - Off & On since Beta. I have 7 end game characters in that game. I always go back to that game.
I didn't watch TV for like 20 years and played games instead. I have a timer and it goes off after 6 hours of playing. Usually, I log off at 2 or 3 hours now days .. voluntarily.
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7 hours ago, Mark C. said:
The economy has softened compared to last year which was over the top.
Sales have returned to normal this year .
I'm seeing this exact same thing. Only the 2nd time in my 30 years of retail I've seen a sales decline. But as you said, cutting costs and you come out with more profit. A big box retail manager told me today that store sales were up .. but profit was down. That prices are just sky rocketing.
I decided to cut back this year and let the bill board I had for like 4 years go. Rate went up but it was still generating enough revenue to be profitable. But I had to open 7 days a week, especially on Sunday. Last year, I reduced to Wed-Sat and only started 7 days again in November. Cutting retail labor to 3 days is a huge saving. I'll keep that schedule this year as well. I usually open up and just have a sign saying call me (I live right there). I'm getting a bigger banner this year to extend hours. I'm here anyway. I can always take off the 3 days I have someone here and go where I want. I'm past the age of wanting to take vacations. I traveled, skied & did scuba diving all over at one time and now have zero interest in traveling. So 3 days is plenty of time to do what I want (basically my only hobby now is playing MMO's).
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This is going to sound terrible. My best employee quit a few days ago because I thought i had made instructions clear about colors but guess I didn't. I think I've just reached my limit in being a tactful manager. Well, she could only glaze for the last year or two anyways. I'm down to just Me in the studio ... and it's the happiest I've been in years. I'm going to do all the making and glazing. I'll have one person 3 days a week out front ... wed, thurs, friday waiting on customers and making jewelry. That's all I really need out there. Down 2 full time employees in the back now and I'm actually looking at more profit. Almost zero production loss and the profit per sale is literally around 75 - 80% vs 20%. The jewelry and fragrance sales way more than pay for the front studio labor. I'm looking forward to the next year. Just ordered 4000 pounds of clay and 8 gallons of glaze. Plus I just got another 50 pounds of dry glaze. Going to order my other dry glaze tomorrow. So there will be no backing down
I'm sticking to this. The numbers look really good. Just the thought of only needed to load 2, maybe 3 kilns a week is delightful and I can make a really good profit on that. Better than before. I figured out each back studio employee was costing me the profit on at least 1 kiln. So I was doing 2 .. even 3 kilns just to pay people. I am so looking forward to this. I'm actually enjoying the work back there now.
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On 11/29/2022 at 10:45 PM, Jillyissilly88 said:
. Otherwise you might be better off training people under you to bulk produce pieces but of course, they're not going to do it like you do or perfect so that's soemthing you'll have to come to terms with
Have you tried this approach? I've done it for probably 8/11 years I've been in pottery. And I am going back down to a just ME. This has been extremely hard. You do reach a point where you make really good money but you are constantly hawking production and keeping the merchandise churning out. I've come down from 8 to about 1.5. Today I dropped to about 1/2 employee. I work less and see more money for me with less. I can make a lot with a 8 person crew, but I'm working about 90-100 hours a week. It's a lot of pressure .. or you will actually lose money. I'm thinking I will have 1 person 2 or 3 days a week this year. And see how it goes.
- Callie Beller Diesel and GEP
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Okay I've used Legal Zoom. I've had 50 or more LLC's. In different states, MS, LA, TN, AL, AR, GA, TX. It's dependent on state. You have to file with the secretary of state and I've found Legal Zoom lays it out for you.
We've only used lawyers for LLC's that had partners outside the family ... several years ago when I had mall stores and outside investors. My brother, niece and I have quite a few active LLC's for different interests (my niece is a lawyer in a really big firm but we don't use her firm to do those).
You want it for taxes? I've always found Legal Zoom adequate. Or I have registered a few myself directly with the state of Mississippi.
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What have I seen that makes people fail in all businesses, not just pottery?
1. Not enough financial backing
2. A product offering that does not offer a definitive advantage or defining attribute that differentiates the product from competing product. In pottery, you have got to have visual appeal. I'm not trained enough to know or apply a high level of skill but I KNOW it when I see it. Sales appeal. If you have such a level of skill, there is a definite audience you HAVE to reach. And that's a whole other set of issues.
3. Not getting the distribution worked out. I consider online/social media to be a part of of the distribution. It goes beyond being simply promotion.
Price is usually not an issue as long as you have a cost based model for a starting point. You have to start at cost and go up from there ..... getting to the high end of perceived value is not ususally a cause for failure although I did consult with one client that have outright laughable price points. Price exceeded perceived value by a land slide.
As for promotion, it's all mostly social media, mailing list. Very few specialty businesses use traditional forms of advertising now.
- GEP and Callie Beller Diesel
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I've haven't checked this board much over the past few years. But this question is ALWAYS here. Some people can but MOST can't seem to. I've watched them come and go (and go and go) over the years. I got my first kiln October 1, 2010. I had my initial investment covered and prepared for 3 years of financial losses. But this business started positive cash flow in about 16 months (1st 4th quarter in my free standing location). I am free standing retail and use very little social media. I do one flea market/craft show 2 times a year but I have decreased my effort there. Been asked lots of times to teach classes and have never even considered it. I'm had up to 8 employees. Now, I have 2 part time.
This business is like any other business. Actually, I think it's easier than something like a retail gift shop or floral shop (I've had both). "What do we need in order to do it?" you ask. Number 1 thing you need is financial backing or put more simply MONEY.
I did not start on shoe string. BUT, you can see my expansion on my website and I can tell you that I paid for all the expansion out of cash flow. I have 4 kilns now. (only really need 2 or 3 now). I bought the first one with investment money and I think I bought the 2nd one too out of personal money (can't remember). Everything since that first year is from cash flow.
What makes me the most money? Selling more or doing more of the work myself? I see more net profit from my own efforts. I have cut back revenues some and don't plan to add any more employees. The 2 I have left will add up to about 1 full time next year. Until September I had 3. I reached a point where I was putting out 7/8 kilns a week ($1k to 1.2K a load). I'm not in that ball park now and sales have tapered off. But my net is higher and cash flow is higher. I've seen my bank account go up in traditional months where it dips.
Three times I've almost had this business sold but it fell through. I'll probably work here till I can't walk (maybe 10 more years?) making a really nice supplemental income with total employee hours adding to less than 20 a week. I actually enjoy the making more than overseeing. I should add that I do a really good jewelry business (all import findings and some straight imports) and a pretty good fragrance business. I won't be giving up jewelry. The materials for candles, lotions, soaps have sky rocketed. This year, I had enough back stock I only bought about $400. From a category that will sell about $50k so it will be a very very good cash flow year from that. I'm not sure I'll reinvest because I think there is a limit as to how much customers will pay for that category.
Handmade pottery sales are holding quite well as is my fashion jewelry this year.
I am not displeased with the financial output of this business over the last 12 years. One thing it does yield an extremely high ROI .. return on your investment for capital equipment, materials, even including the real estate purchase I made for my location (including all start up costs). I wouldn't say it yields an extremely high ROI on your time. I actually can make more $$$ doing retail consulting (which I limit so as not to neglect the business). Also, the leverage factor, what you net from the efforts of employees, is not the most attractive ratio compared to the other straight retail businesses I have owned. I've always done pretty well in retail but I do see retail tapering off in the upcoming years. Thankfully, I won't depend on retail a sure outlet.
Good luck and read the photo story on my website that somewhat chronicles my journey. I think it can still be done ... but as I said .. MOST people that start it won't succeed. But Cheers to those that do. SOMEONE will make it. Will that someone be you? (might add that I did start this business with quite a bit of business, finance and academic experience)
Sharon Grimes
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in Business, Marketing, and Accounting
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People help find that smart person that came up with this idea! It was someone here.