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PeterH

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  1. Like
    PeterH reacted to Magnolia Mud Research in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    my additional four thoughts:
    1.  Agree with @Pres.  Perhaps the automationers will add moisture meters as part of the automated part of the kilns.  I'm not holding my breath. 
    2.  Keep in mind that the water trapped inside of the ware is most likely not pure water but a water solution of various materials; according high school chem textbooks the boiling point of solutions are above the boiling point of pure water and as the water is evaporated the boiling point increaces.  The point is that holding at 212 F is probably a very slow drying unless there is a large air flow through the kiln. (large is a undefined variable depending on the kiln size and the ware load) 
    3.  The thickness and the coarseness of the clay body components have a strong say about when things are dry enough to start getting HOT, HOTer, and HOTest.  Raku clay bodes with coarse grog dries faster than fine porcelain clay bodies of the same thickness.  Teaching studios generally have all sorts of clay bodies, etc.   
    4.   Best route is to get the ware dry prior to placed in the kiln; also design the ware to dry easy and uniformly. 
    LT
  2. Like
    PeterH reacted to Pres in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    While the science is quite interesting, the best physical evidence that the kiln is done water smoking is the feel of dryness from the peep, If there is still a dam feel from the peep, do not begin the firing.  I know that in this day of programmable kilns that one would like to set all of the parameters up to have a program for wet ware, leather hard ware, bone dry ware, and clunky ware, but in the long run checking before the kiln  goes to full firing will save a bit of worry about whether the ware was ready for the program. Sometimes the characteristics  of the ware being fired is beyond programming, especially when dealing with student pottery hand built or thrown.
     
    best,
    Pres
  3. Like
    PeterH reacted to Callie Beller Diesel in Kates Hot Orange glaze   
    @PeterH usually on instagram, people are trying to appeal to customers, so tagging a post with information about the exact glaze used isn’t common practice. That particular hashtag has only 7 posts under it. If you were to use #orangepottery for instance,  you’d get much better results for images, but it’d be unlikely to lead you directly to recipes. 
    Pinterest would give you better search results, with the caveat that your results with recipes found online may vary.
  4. Like
    PeterH reacted to Callie Beller Diesel in Kates Hot Orange glaze   
    Doing a quick search on glazy using search terms Kates Hot Orange gave me a recipe for Katz-Burke matte at cone 6. I only found one person who had listed an orange variation on it with some Degussa stains, link below. You can click through links at the bottom of the page to see the other variations. The tests using oxides seem to indicate it would take an orange stain just fine, but you’d have to play around with the exact hue and saturation you want. 
    https://glazy.org/recipes/57204
  5. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Callie Beller Diesel in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    In answer to your question. For water below it's local boiling point inward heat-flow causes the temperature of the water to increase, when the the local boiling point is reached some of it is converted to steam. The local boiling point is a function of the local pressure, which in turn will be influenced by any back-pressure generated as the steam tries to escape.

    AFAICT bara = absolute pressure in bars (atmospheric pressure is around 1 bar).
    My post was really just applauding @Kelly in AK for making the point that the thermocouple temperature doesn't indicate the current temperature of everything in the kiln, rather than offering a solution to the candling problem. And throwing in a little physics to indicate the complexity of the situation when evaporative cooling is involved.
    Hence just looking at the kiln's thermocouple  probably doesn't give much insight into what is happening at the water-air interface within a damp clay body, and certainly not the temperature there. So - for example - wondering if the thermocouple can safely show a temperature just above boiling point (at atmospheric  pressure) probably isn't a useful question. BTW I calculate that the  240F mentioned in the first post is the boiling point at ~2bar, so it cannot produce an back-pressure of more than about ~1bar. Hence 240F could well be safe for "normal" pots.
    ... figure generated via  https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html?vA=2&units=B#
    ... I would certainly agree with treating "demanding/thick" and "high-invested-effort" items such as sculptures more conservatively.
    What I certainly don't understand is a point I heard Ian Gregory make. That he could fire (without candling) pots a few hours after he made them, but otherwise has to wait about a week to do so.  A tentative guess is that a half-dry pot could have a dry (and thermally insulating) outer layer that lets the outer layer to become "too hot" before evaporative cooling kicks in, while a fully damp pot supports an evaporatively cooled interface  moving gradually from the outer surface inwards.
    Anyway Ian Gregory's comment suggest that all damp pots are not equal, so we probably have to allow for the likely worst case in the load. In which case for normal pots perhaps a temperature picked to be incapable of generating "high" back-pressure might be a starting point, and a time derived from experience. Which is pretty well where we started.
    PS Has anybody done IR temperature measurements on pots while they are candling?
  6. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Callie Beller Diesel in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    Yes indeed. While it takes 100 cal/gm to heat water from freezing point to boiling point it takes another 541 cal/gm to turn it into steam.
    In domestic terms you put an uncovered stew in the oven at 180C and it fairly rapidly reaches boiling point, but then quietly sits there evaporating  for several hours at 100C.
    The downside of course is that water expands by a factor of 1600 when it turns to steam, which needs to escape.
    Don't know the figures for chemically combined water.

    Latent Heat and Freezing and Boiling Points https://www.e-education.psu.edu/earth111/node/841

    PS Loosely related
    The Art, Science, and Allure of Spain’s Water-Cooling Jugs https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/botijo-jug
    But behind its apparent simplicity, the details of the botijo’s cooling system are incredibly complex. In the 1990s, two Spanish scientists developed a mathematical model to explain the details. They placed botijos in an oven and measured the water evaporation rate and the temperature drop over time. In the end, they came up with two lengthy and complicated differential equations to explain the mechanism.
    An ancient method of cooling water explained by mass and heat transfer http://quim.iqi.etsii.upm.es/botijo.pdf
    ... they placed a botijo full of water at 27.5C in an oven at 39C (simulating a hot day), seven hours later the water was at 24C.
    ... and you certainly don't want to follow the maths, but I don't expect that for candling pots is any simpler.
     
  7. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Magnolia Mud Research in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    I'm a great believer in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". So I'm in total agreement that keeping to your tried and true process is the smart thing to do.
    To play devils-advocate. You are ensuring that there won't be problems during candling (by keeping below boiling point), and relying on your experience to know that any residual pore-water won't cause problems during the bisque. While somebody candling to 240F is ensuring that there won't be problems during the bisque (by removing virtually all the pore-water) , and relying on their experience to know that this won't cause problems during the candling. IMHO both are admirable strategies. 
  8. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Hulk in Teaching Senior Adults - Language Barrier   
    Good idea Pres.
    May I suggest that @scottiebie considers trying to enlist the help of those Korean speakers on the forum. Perhaps by starting  a new thread (with a title something like "Korean-language beginning-throwing videos and posters needed") explaining the problem. Maybe one of the more mainstream groups such as Studio Operations and Making Work would be more likely to catch their eye.
    A very superficial search suggests that English speakers might easily get overwhelmed by the number of Korean-language items on throwing Korean-style pottery (usually by experts).
  9. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Pres in Teaching Senior Adults - Language Barrier   
    Good idea Pres.
    May I suggest that @scottiebie considers trying to enlist the help of those Korean speakers on the forum. Perhaps by starting  a new thread (with a title something like "Korean-language beginning-throwing videos and posters needed") explaining the problem. Maybe one of the more mainstream groups such as Studio Operations and Making Work would be more likely to catch their eye.
    A very superficial search suggests that English speakers might easily get overwhelmed by the number of Korean-language items on throwing Korean-style pottery (usually by experts).
  10. Like
    PeterH reacted to Pres in Teaching Senior Adults - Language Barrier   
    Sounds like to me she needs some visuals showing the steps to throwing. Poster used to do the trick in the old school days, but in this day and age there are several videos out the that should help you out. This would work especially if you can find some with Korean speakers in them. Posters and diagrams, handouts and process step materials would also be helpful to all as a step by step organization of the throwing process. Easy enough to  do with pictures and Word.
     
    best,
    Pres
  11. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Rae Reich in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    All embarrassingly good questions, I'll only answer the last one. Stuntman, singer and potter, he was somewhat of an exhibitionist and - at least at exhibitions - fired fast. His shopping-trolley kiln took about 10 mins for bisquit or raku, and 30 mins for stoneware. My vague memory was that his little-rocket reached cone 9 even faster. [Not certain if he used temperature or cones.]
  12. Like
    PeterH reacted to Kelly in AK in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    The two times I tried this the pots went directly from the wheel into a red hot kiln. No explosions. 
  13. Like
    PeterH reacted to Min in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    One variable that hasn't been explored is the heating up rate of 80F/hr to the target temp of 240F that I used. What is happening to the surface of the pot during that phase? What is the relationship between the clay thickness and the warming up period? What happens when this rate is increased? How much non chemically bound water is lost during heating up to 240K?  At what rate did Ian Gregory heat his freshly thrown pots? 
  14. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Min in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    In answer to your question. For water below it's local boiling point inward heat-flow causes the temperature of the water to increase, when the the local boiling point is reached some of it is converted to steam. The local boiling point is a function of the local pressure, which in turn will be influenced by any back-pressure generated as the steam tries to escape.

    AFAICT bara = absolute pressure in bars (atmospheric pressure is around 1 bar).
    My post was really just applauding @Kelly in AK for making the point that the thermocouple temperature doesn't indicate the current temperature of everything in the kiln, rather than offering a solution to the candling problem. And throwing in a little physics to indicate the complexity of the situation when evaporative cooling is involved.
    Hence just looking at the kiln's thermocouple  probably doesn't give much insight into what is happening at the water-air interface within a damp clay body, and certainly not the temperature there. So - for example - wondering if the thermocouple can safely show a temperature just above boiling point (at atmospheric  pressure) probably isn't a useful question. BTW I calculate that the  240F mentioned in the first post is the boiling point at ~2bar, so it cannot produce an back-pressure of more than about ~1bar. Hence 240F could well be safe for "normal" pots.
    ... figure generated via  https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html?vA=2&units=B#
    ... I would certainly agree with treating "demanding/thick" and "high-invested-effort" items such as sculptures more conservatively.
    What I certainly don't understand is a point I heard Ian Gregory make. That he could fire (without candling) pots a few hours after he made them, but otherwise has to wait about a week to do so.  A tentative guess is that a half-dry pot could have a dry (and thermally insulating) outer layer that lets the outer layer to become "too hot" before evaporative cooling kicks in, while a fully damp pot supports an evaporatively cooled interface  moving gradually from the outer surface inwards.
    Anyway Ian Gregory's comment suggest that all damp pots are not equal, so we probably have to allow for the likely worst case in the load. In which case for normal pots perhaps a temperature picked to be incapable of generating "high" back-pressure might be a starting point, and a time derived from experience. Which is pretty well where we started.
    PS Has anybody done IR temperature measurements on pots while they are candling?
  15. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Rae Reich in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    In answer to your question. For water below it's local boiling point inward heat-flow causes the temperature of the water to increase, when the the local boiling point is reached some of it is converted to steam. The local boiling point is a function of the local pressure, which in turn will be influenced by any back-pressure generated as the steam tries to escape.

    AFAICT bara = absolute pressure in bars (atmospheric pressure is around 1 bar).
    My post was really just applauding @Kelly in AK for making the point that the thermocouple temperature doesn't indicate the current temperature of everything in the kiln, rather than offering a solution to the candling problem. And throwing in a little physics to indicate the complexity of the situation when evaporative cooling is involved.
    Hence just looking at the kiln's thermocouple  probably doesn't give much insight into what is happening at the water-air interface within a damp clay body, and certainly not the temperature there. So - for example - wondering if the thermocouple can safely show a temperature just above boiling point (at atmospheric  pressure) probably isn't a useful question. BTW I calculate that the  240F mentioned in the first post is the boiling point at ~2bar, so it cannot produce an back-pressure of more than about ~1bar. Hence 240F could well be safe for "normal" pots.
    ... figure generated via  https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html?vA=2&units=B#
    ... I would certainly agree with treating "demanding/thick" and "high-invested-effort" items such as sculptures more conservatively.
    What I certainly don't understand is a point I heard Ian Gregory make. That he could fire (without candling) pots a few hours after he made them, but otherwise has to wait about a week to do so.  A tentative guess is that a half-dry pot could have a dry (and thermally insulating) outer layer that lets the outer layer to become "too hot" before evaporative cooling kicks in, while a fully damp pot supports an evaporatively cooled interface  moving gradually from the outer surface inwards.
    Anyway Ian Gregory's comment suggest that all damp pots are not equal, so we probably have to allow for the likely worst case in the load. In which case for normal pots perhaps a temperature picked to be incapable of generating "high" back-pressure might be a starting point, and a time derived from experience. Which is pretty well where we started.
    PS Has anybody done IR temperature measurements on pots while they are candling?
  16. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Rae Reich in Candling temperature / Drying greenware in kiln   
    Yes indeed. While it takes 100 cal/gm to heat water from freezing point to boiling point it takes another 541 cal/gm to turn it into steam.
    In domestic terms you put an uncovered stew in the oven at 180C and it fairly rapidly reaches boiling point, but then quietly sits there evaporating  for several hours at 100C.
    The downside of course is that water expands by a factor of 1600 when it turns to steam, which needs to escape.
    Don't know the figures for chemically combined water.

    Latent Heat and Freezing and Boiling Points https://www.e-education.psu.edu/earth111/node/841

    PS Loosely related
    The Art, Science, and Allure of Spain’s Water-Cooling Jugs https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/botijo-jug
    But behind its apparent simplicity, the details of the botijo’s cooling system are incredibly complex. In the 1990s, two Spanish scientists developed a mathematical model to explain the details. They placed botijos in an oven and measured the water evaporation rate and the temperature drop over time. In the end, they came up with two lengthy and complicated differential equations to explain the mechanism.
    An ancient method of cooling water explained by mass and heat transfer http://quim.iqi.etsii.upm.es/botijo.pdf
    ... they placed a botijo full of water at 27.5C in an oven at 39C (simulating a hot day), seven hours later the water was at 24C.
    ... and you certainly don't want to follow the maths, but I don't expect that for candling pots is any simpler.
     
  17. Like
    PeterH reacted to Min in Kates Hot Orange glaze   
    Looks like a barium matte with an orange stain.
  18. Like
    PeterH reacted to Bill Kielb in Kates Hot Orange glaze   
    Stain and clear matte likely should get you close and can be adjustable and repeatable. There are lots of clear matte glazes out on Glazy.
  19. Like
    PeterH reacted to Hulk in Kates Hot Orange glaze   
    Hi Onward!
    Are you looking for mid fire (cone 5/6)?
    I'm not finding that particular recipe.
    There are several oranges listed on glazy.org
    My guess would be that a dependable orange would be based on orange stain, e.g.
    Orange | Mason Color Works
    Here's an article on oranges:
    Time to Warm Up! 5 Red and Orange Glaze Recipes (ceramicartsnetwork.org)
     
  20. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Babs in Large vessels   
    Although never say never ...
    https://www.plumetismagazine.net/technique-poterie-tournage-corde/

  21. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Babs in Large vessels   
    I cannot remember where I first saw mention of this technique, but I suspect that it was in one of your postings a decade or so ago.
    This image part-way through the stop-motion video I linked confirms that the clay is not coiled. Also note the profile board defining the outer shape


    The clay looks (and is described) as rather softer in another reference
    https://deborahsilver.com/blog/tag/handmade-garden-pots/

    It is much more efficient to press the sticky clay into the rope.  The form keep the clay from succumbing to gravity.
    ... These pictures detail how the wet clay is pressed into the rope covered form.  The texture you see here-the finger marks of the person making this pot.
    ... Once the wet clay is pressed into the ropes, the wheel turns, and the surface is smoothed.
  22. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Callie Beller Diesel in Large vessels   
    Although never say never ...
    https://www.plumetismagazine.net/technique-poterie-tournage-corde/

  23. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Callie Beller Diesel in Large vessels   
    I cannot remember where I first saw mention of this technique, but I suspect that it was in one of your postings a decade or so ago.
    This image part-way through the stop-motion video I linked confirms that the clay is not coiled. Also note the profile board defining the outer shape


    The clay looks (and is described) as rather softer in another reference
    https://deborahsilver.com/blog/tag/handmade-garden-pots/

    It is much more efficient to press the sticky clay into the rope.  The form keep the clay from succumbing to gravity.
    ... These pictures detail how the wet clay is pressed into the rope covered form.  The texture you see here-the finger marks of the person making this pot.
    ... Once the wet clay is pressed into the ropes, the wheel turns, and the surface is smoothed.
  24. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Rae Reich in Large vessels   
    Although never say never ...
    https://www.plumetismagazine.net/technique-poterie-tournage-corde/

  25. Like
    PeterH got a reaction from Rae Reich in Large vessels   
    I cannot remember where I first saw mention of this technique, but I suspect that it was in one of your postings a decade or so ago.
    This image part-way through the stop-motion video I linked confirms that the clay is not coiled. Also note the profile board defining the outer shape


    The clay looks (and is described) as rather softer in another reference
    https://deborahsilver.com/blog/tag/handmade-garden-pots/

    It is much more efficient to press the sticky clay into the rope.  The form keep the clay from succumbing to gravity.
    ... These pictures detail how the wet clay is pressed into the rope covered form.  The texture you see here-the finger marks of the person making this pot.
    ... Once the wet clay is pressed into the ropes, the wheel turns, and the surface is smoothed.
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