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Old Itc 100

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#1 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 01:52 PM

I purchased two little containers of ITC (one 100 and the other 213) about ten years ago.  Used them both at the time, then just the ITC 100 six years ago.

 

I attempted to use the ITC 100 again last week and it, um, didn't work.  I've called a couple ceramic supply places, with mixed answers as to if it has a shelf life, if it's water-soluble.  

 

It's powdered in the container (can't remember if this is how it came or not?).  When mixed into a bucket of water, it doesn't dissolve in the least.  When it comes from the spray gun, I just get one or two little shots of dry powder (accompanied by a water mist), which temporarily sticks to the brick, then plain misted water.

 

I'm using the same spray gun I used before, and it appears to not be clogged at all.

 

Any thoughts?



#2 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 01:59 PM

I always used a cheap sand blaster I got from Home Depot. I don't think they carry them anymore. I would use a heavy duty stirrer attachment on a drill and trip to keep it in solution.I think a spray can has a much smaller orifice than a sand blaster. ITC is very gritty.

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#3 Mark C.

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:04 PM

Not sure about 213  (never used) but for the 100 it comes wet and you add the same amount of water to it mix it and spray.That is a haly gallon becomes a full gallon.

It sounds like it all dried out. My experience with it is when its dry its toast. The binders go off and do not rewet.

Did you power mix this stuff up before spraying? It also need to be stired while spraying.

Mark


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#4 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:20 PM

Right. Spraying ITC is a 2 fisted operation. One hand on the sprayer and the other on the mixing drill.
You need to dampen the surface with water before spraying on bricks.
Did you use a paint sprayer last time and did it work?

Marcia

#5 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:49 AM

We didn't use an electric mixer, but we mixed the hell out of it.  And while we were spraying, we stirred and stirred and stirred.  Two-person job.  I did dampen the surface, too.  I'm not sure what sort of sprayer it is - I know I bought whatever Mel and Nils told me to buy at the time.  It connects to the air compressor out of one tube, hose to the bucket of ITC/Water out of the other.

 

It's just not at all like it was the previous two times - just completely not right.  I'm inclined to go with Mark's response.  "It sounds like it all dried out. My experience with it is when its dry its toast. The binders go off and do not rewet."  That's really what it seems like.

 

What I'm attempting to do is coat the soft brick in my converted-electric to propane/wood soda kiln.  The opinions seem to be so varied on whether coating with ITC is even going to help (or if coating them with anything is going to help).



#6 oldlady

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:24 AM

why would you coat the bricks?  never having fired anything with fuel i just wonder what reason could anyone have to assume the ordinary bricks need something extra.


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#7 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:23 PM

I am in no way an expert, so please correct any vocabulary words here, but:  Vapors in a soda/salt firing can work their way into the porous soft brick, then expand, to break the brick apart (spalling).

 

Hours and hours (and hours) of Internet research, combined with bothering the livin' poop out of many potters and kiln builders, and reading extensively on the issue, has lead me to understand the following about bricks and soda kilns:

 

- I should only be using hard brick for a soda kiln.  

- Or I could use soft brick, and coat it.  

- Possibly with ITC, but perhaps with a kaolin/alumina hydrate mixture.

- Or, maybe I shouldn't coat it at all, as no matter what coating I use will eventually chip off onto my pieces. 

- But definitely I shouldn't use hard brick, because of the increased fuel costs.  

- Certainly I should be using hard brick, at least on the floor. 

 

It's a confusing world out there, folks!



#8 OffCenter

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:32 PM

why would you coat the bricks?  never having fired anything with fuel i just wonder what reason could anyone have to assume the ordinary bricks need something extra.

 

If you google info about ITC coatings you'll find that some claim it is a miracle product that makes any kiln, from a little electric to the biggest anagama, a super kiln. It protects elements and soft bricks. You'll probably run into something about some potter coating a piece of plywood with it and using that for an anagama door for a while, etc., etc. On the other hand you will find all that balanced by potters explaining that it is expensive, a hell of a lot of work, and doesn't really work miracles.

 

Jim


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#9 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 07:59 AM

Nils Lou demonstrated ITC on plywood at an NCECA maybe 15 -20 years ago. He built a small kiln out of plywood coated with ITC 100 and fired it. No anagrama. Nils Lou is not a magician nor a miracle worker.He is a reputable potter and author of "The Art of Firing", "Play Book" (developing creativity), On the Wheel with Nils Lou DVD.
The ITC 100 product is advertised in industry for for use in emergencies such as industrial foundries for example if a chunk of door falls off the furnace, itc coated plywood will help seal it until future repairs can be made. It is expensive, but does last a long time. I think mine may have dried up by now but is at least it over 12 years old.I used it last about 5 years ago.

The way ITC works is it reflects heat off the bricks...better insulation.
Soft insulation bricks for a soda kiln need to be high alumina bricks or the soda vapor will eat the bricks.
I have a soft brick soda kiln at La Meridiana. It lasted 12 years. They are building a new one this year.
Ruthanne Tudball, Terry Davies and Pietro Maddelena fired it for workshops as well as for Terry and Pietro's production work.
Marcia

#10 OffCenter

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:52 AM

Nils Lou demonstrated ITC on plywood at an NCECA maybe 15 -20 years ago. He built a small kiln out of plywood coated with ITC 100 and fired it. No anagrama. Nils Lou is not a magician nor a miracle worker.He is a reputable potter and author of "The Art of Firing", "Play Book" (developing creativity), On the Wheel with Nils Lou DVD.

 

Obviously, I wasn't trying to be exact, nor attacking Nils Lou. I was simply trying to quickly let OldLady know that all she had to do was google to find all kinds of info and claims about ITC, ranging, exactly as I said, from claims that it is a miracle product to claims that it is a waste of money.

 

OldLady, this is one of the threads discussing ITC: http://ceramicartsda...ents#entry20657

 

Jim


E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#11 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:43 AM

Nils Lou demonstrated ITC on plywood at an NCECA maybe 15 -20 years ago. He built a small kiln out of plywood coated with ITC 100 and fired it. No anagrama. Nils Lou is not a magician nor a miracle worker.He is a reputable potter and author of "The Art of Firing", "Play Book" (developing creativity), On the Wheel with Nils Lou DVD.
[/quote]
 
Obviously, I wasn't trying to be exact, nor attacking Nils Lou. I was simply trying to quickly let OldLady know that all she had to do was google to find all kinds of info and claims about ITC, ranging, exactly as I said, from claims that it is a miracle product to claims that it is a waste of money.
 
Jim

OK I think usage and application greatly affect the performance of any product's claims.
Nils is my friend. Sorry if I overreacted to your post. His demonstration at NCECA was really a highlight for many people who witnessed it.

Marcia



#12 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:56 AM

I became a believer in ITC after Mel Jacobson and Nils Lou presented at a Pottery Council workshop back in 2003 or so.  I went home and did exactly what they presented:  Converted, with the help of ITC 100 for the bricks and ITC 213 for the elements, an electric kiln to reach cone 10 with the elements but achieve reduction atmosphere with a Bunsen burner.  I found some beautiful copper reds in my electric kiln afterward!



#13 OffCenter

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 10:27 AM

I became a believer in ITC after Mel Jacobson and Nils Lou presented at a Pottery Council workshop back in 2003 or so.  I went home and did exactly what they presented:  Converted, with the help of ITC 100 for the bricks and ITC 213 for the elements, an electric kiln to reach cone 10 with the elements but achieve reduction atmosphere with a Bunsen burner.  I found some beautiful copper reds in my electric kiln afterward!

 

That's really interesting. That's what I was asking about in this old thread: http://ceramicartsda...ents#entry20657. How did you coat the elements? I mean it seems the coating is only as good as the weakest place and it seems covering elements completely would be very difficult.

 

Jim


E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#14 OffCenter

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 10:38 AM

 

 

Nils Lou demonstrated ITC on plywood at an NCECA maybe 15 -20 years ago. He built a small kiln out of plywood coated with ITC 100 and fired it. No anagrama. Nils Lou is not a magician nor a miracle worker.He is a reputable potter and author of "The Art of Firing", "Play Book" (developing creativity), On the Wheel with Nils Lou DVD.
[/quote]
 
Obviously, I wasn't trying to be exact, nor attacking Nils Lou. I was simply trying to quickly let OldLady know that all she had to do was google to find all kinds of info and claims about ITC, ranging, exactly as I said, from claims that it is a miracle product to claims that it is a waste of money.
 
Jim

OK I think usage and application greatly affect the performance of any product's claims.
Nils is my friend. Sorry if I overreacted to your post. His demonstration at NCECA was really a highlight for many people who witnessed it.

Marcia

 

 

 

Reading what you posted about ITC and what Kristin posted has me interested in it again. After looking up that old thread where I asked what people thought of using it in electric kilns I think I was convinced not to use it because  in that thread there was posts about how great ITC is and other posts saying basically that it was overrated. Your vote for it makes a big difference for me.

 

Jim


E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#15 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 10:57 AM

My kilns are set up to use the bunsen burner for reduction too. But the burner is too tall to fit under my kilns. I have worked out glazes for what I like to do, so I am ok with that. Meanwhile I am still a believer in ITC and coated new elements in an older kiln prior to moving from Montana to Texas.

Marcia

#16 Mark C.

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:35 AM

Marcia did you pull out your elements to coat them with the #213 or did you spay the inside with #100HT?

 

I sprayed an older electric interior with #100HT to make the surface stronger back in the day when I had a 5 gallons of the stuff.

It did work well on the salt kiln with soft brick

I never have used the #213 but understood you should pull out the elements to coat them.

 

The new owners have a new website.

I read somewhere that Mel was working with the new owners on a potter special price fot #100HT anyone know the details?

Also if anyone is looking for some #213  (for coating metel elements) I know of a place with old stock-I think the price is the old price-PM me for details.

Mark


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#17 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:57 AM

Marcia did you pull out your elements to coat them with the #213 or did you spay the inside with #100HT?
 
I sprayed an older electric interior with #100HT to make the surface stronger back in the day when I had a 5 gallons of the stuff.
It did work well on the salt kiln with soft brick
I never have used the #213 but understood you should pull out the elements to coat them.
 
The new owners have a new website.
I read somewhere that Mel was working with the new owners on a potter special price fot #100HT anyone know the details?
Also if anyone is looking for some #213  (for coating metel elements) I know of a place with old stock-I think the price is the old price-PM me for details.
Mark

I coated NEW elements with 213.Old elements are brittle and would break. And sprayed the kiln with ITC 100 while there were no elements in it. I never bought more than a gallon at a time. Feris even sent me a gallon once. Alice, his wife, was a friend.She died very quickly from breast cancer around 96 or 97. I sprayed the kilns with ITC 100 at the University.It doesn't take much.

#18 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:38 PM

This is what I did, too.  Threw out the old elements, dip-coated the new ones in 213, sprayed the empty kiln with 100 before putting the new, coated, elements in.

 

I coated NEW elements with 213.Old elements are brittle and would break. And sprayed the kiln with ITC 100 while there were no elements in it. I never bought more than a gallon at a time. Feris even sent me a gallon once. Alice, his wife, was a friend.She died very quickly from breast cancer around 96 or 97. I sprayed the kilns with ITC 100 at the University.It doesn't take much.

 



#19 Mark C.

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:24 PM

 

Marcia did you pull out your elements to coat them with the #213 or did you spay the inside with #100HT?
 
I sprayed an older electric interior with #100HT to make the surface stronger back in the day when I had a 5 gallons of the stuff.
It did work well on the salt kiln with soft brick
I never have used the #213 but understood you should pull out the elements to coat them.
 
The new owners have a new website.
I read somewhere that Mel was working with the new owners on a potter special price fot #100HT anyone know the details?
Also if anyone is looking for some #213  (for coating metel elements) I know of a place with old stock-I think the price is the old price-PM me for details.
Mark

I coated NEW elements with 213.Old elements are brittle and would break. And sprayed the kiln with ITC 100 while there were no elements in it. I never bought more than a gallon at a time. Feris even sent me a gallon once. Alice, his wife, was a friend.She died very quickly from breast cancer around 96 or 97. I sprayed the kilns with ITC 100 at the University.It doesn't take much.

 

Alice was great with me- both of them where so friendly  . It was great to deal with them directly. I still use the ITC writing pens and ITC hat they sent me-You have a good memory to recall what years that was. I sprayed that stuff on Kiln shelves (12x24 1inch mullite then english dry pressed ones) It made them hold up way longer before warping at cone 11. I put it on fiber kiln and soft brick. Made the surfaces last longer. The best use for me was salt kiln stuff. 

I always keep a gallon or two around. When he sold the company last year I stocked up at old prices. I'm a ceramic horder of materials-bricks-shelves -fiber. If I do not have spares  to build another kiln I feel I need to get them. Since no ceramic stores which care any of these items are nearby I tend to stock up when I get near an outlet. Now with advancers I no longer need to coat shelves. I now also have my own salt resit coating so ITC is for other applications. I have never had a new electric in the  I have bought so no chance to coat elements. I will say the ITC 200 EZ filler on soft brick is one of the best products I have seen fo brick repair.

Mark


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#20 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:45 PM

Yes. I used ITC-soaked fiber to repair the kilns at UH-Manoa.Great for sealing huge cracks.
I was just out in my kiln shed after a test firing of Obvara. I have 2 rolls of 8lb. 1" Ceramics Fiber. I was thinking I could find a place for them in the garage and build a smaller raku test kiln for these fun experiments.

Alice was from Philadelphia. I recognized her accent in our first conversation. She was my age and went to my rival HS. We'd talked for a long time. After living in Montana and now deepest South Texas, I just mail order almost everything or drive to Austin, Houston, or elsewhere for supplies. I haven't been within 260 miles of a supplier in 40 years.

Marcia




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