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Artificial Gravity

Convince me...

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>I imagine Chris has to give back a lot of her expensive porcelain to the earth because she colors it. A long time ago I worked in colored clay and hated throwing away the scraps from big cakes of clay that I cut into slabs. I had a machinist make me a machine that used the thinnest strand of piano wire to cut the colored porcelain that I could laminate on both sides of a slab of recycled colored clay, which allowed me to even recycle colored porcelain.>

 

I actually give back almost none of my colored clay ... As you say, it is way too expensive to throw out. The cost of the clay, shipping, colorants, labor ... No way!

What do I do with it? I make cutting wire ends for my workshop students since we make our own sharper wires, I make colored stones, I make chopstick holders ... Lots of small stuff. Once the clay gets too grey/brown, I let it dry out and use it as the base for black slip.

 

Now, my cheap clay is a totally different story. I have no problem giving it back to the earth!

I sold my pugger eighteen years ago and bought my commercial Hobart mixer which has been a thousand times more useful to a clay colorer and slip maker.

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For newbies, I think recycling is an important part of their education. You learn a lot about the clay going through that process.

 

 

I would agree only to the point that you can learn clay by throwing it, mash it down and let it dry a bit then throw it again etc. ... but I would never try to promote the idea that it was a way to save money or decrease the wear and tear on your body.

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>I imagine Chris has to give back a lot of her expensive porcelain to the earth because she colors it. A long time ago I worked in colored clay and hated throwing away the scraps from big cakes of clay that I cut into slabs. I had a machinist make me a machine that used the thinnest strand of piano wire to cut the colored porcelain that I could laminate on both sides of a slab of recycled colored clay, which allowed me to even recycle colored porcelain.>

 

I actually give back almost none of my colored clay ... As you say, it is way too expensive to throw out. The cost of the clay, shipping, colorants, labor ... No way!

What do I do with it? I make cutting wire ends for my workshop students since we make our own sharper wires, I make colored stones, I make chopstick holders ... Lots of small stuff. Once the clay gets too grey/brown, I let it dry out and use it as the base for black slip.

 

Now, my cheap clay is a totally different story. I have no problem giving it back to the earth!

I sold my pugger eighteen years ago and bought my commercial Hobart mixer which has been a thousand times more useful to a clay colorer and slip maker.

 

 

Very interesting.

 

Jim

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I lust after a pugger, not only for recycled clay, but as I am getting older I see that it is easier on the body to put clay through a pug mill rather than wedge it all. It is good exercise, but when speaking with those that have a pug mill, I hear how much easier it is on their bodies, I have also spoken to two women who both brought up how hard being a potter is on their body, one is no longer working in clay because of that. The other has a pug mill.

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but I would never try to promote the idea that it was a way to save money or decrease the wear and tear on your body.

 

 

But you just said you recycle your clay because it is too expensive to throw away. As I keep repeating, it depends on how you work with clay. I though you'd be one of the few art potters who would not recycle because you use colored clay but you do recycle it to save money. For some it is worth the effort for some it isn't. I would think that for a student recycling would be important because unless they have a lousy teacher, they are going to throw a lot of clay and the vast majority of those pieces are not going to be worth keeping. My old pottery instructor would have pugged any student he saw throwing clay away. (BTW, we made it from scratch--because only dilettantes bought those cute little 25 lb bags of clay-- and it was dirt cheap.)

 

Jim

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Not to defend the rant, but it would be nice to know who you are, AG. The ceramics community is small, so it's nice to meet new folks. I've met a lot of great people here, some of whom live near me and I've actually had the chance to meet in person.

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Since I started this thread, I can hijack it at any time, as I will.

Below is partial list of people that have started threads in this section of the forum. There are fourteen names on the list, I have circled the names of members that have posted NO information on their page. nine of us, out of fourteen, have no real name, pictures, birthdays, locations, etc. Most of these people did not 'introduce themselves' either.

Why should I (Or anyone) be required to post anything they don't want to post?

 

gallery_31243_561_3497.jpg

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Since I started this thread, I can hijack it at any time, as I will.

Below is partial list of people that have started threads in this section of the forum. There are fourteen names on the list, I have circled the names of members that have posted NO information on their page. nine of us, out of fourteen, have no real name, pictures, birthdays, locations, etc. Most of these people did not 'introduce themselves' either.

Why should I (Or anyone) be required to post anything they don't want to post?

 

gallery_31243_561_3497.jpg

 

 

We have no right to require you to do anything but the Ceramics Arts software should, at least, require real names.

 

Jim

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Asking for Offcenter's comments to be taken off is just silly ... He has the right to his opinion and just because you start a topic doesn't mean you get to edit other's views. He did not say anything even remotely rant-ish.

(Oops ... Was that a rant?)

 

Anyhow, to continue ...

I use as much of the colored Southern Ice as I can because it is expensive and time consuming to design and produce ... sometimes just too lovely to toss.

I do not recycle clay I get for .33 cents a lb.

You all can do whatever floats your boat ... Like everything else in pottery .... It all depends .......

 

Also .. Use your name, don't use your name ... As long as you aren't a troll you are welcome.

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AH!, now I see how it goes!

 

I started a legitimate discussion about pugmills, and their practicality. When posters failed to convince me that they were needed, I said so.

Because I expressed an opinion that OffCenter didn't like, he resorted to an ad hominem attack, which really isn't necessary, the majority of people here can disagree without ranting posts calling others 'invertebrates', and calling their posts 'stupid'.

I mean, these posts came out of the blue, and were really unexpected, and surprising.

I guess these replies will reflect well on the forum, and Ceramic Arts in general, but maybe no-one cares about that.

Besides, how could a person's real name ever be verified anyway? and WHY should people be required to give it?

Did I call anyone names? Did I ridicule anyone's post?

this is really disappointing.

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Hi my name is lou (real name). (Where are my manners) I'm a rank beginner as far pottery goes.

Birthday, gallery pics (a few), location, all present and accounted for. (As of now)

 

I enjoy the sardonic, vitriolic commentary that go on here and other posts!!! The drama makes for more interesting read. Not to mention learning a lot.

The art world requires thick skin. So does public forums.

I'd much rather honesty than sugar sweet pleasantries, and untruths.

 

Here's a welcome, and virtual round of drinks to ALLl. (Bourbon for me)

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>Besides, how could a person's real name ever be verified anyway? and WHY should people be required to give it?<

 

There is nothing on this forum that requires you to use your own name if you choose not to.

 

I use my real name by choice because I try never to post anything that I would not stand behind. I really don't see any need to stay anonymous ... plus I don't have the attention span it would require to maintain it.

 

I will say that it is nice to know who you are talking to ... where they are and how long they have been working and what they do. But I still respect the opinions and thoughts of those who stay unknown ... they have their reasons and I respect that.

When this forum started our main goal was to stay respectful ... express opinions, have lively discussions, laugh and disagree ... we did not put any rules in about identifying yourself or never expressing an opposing opinion.

Clay is all about opinions. Put four potters in a room and you have at least eight or ten different opinions.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa Gentlemen! Let's everyone settle down.

 

 

Off Center, just because someone, doesn't have their information posted, doesn't mean they are trying to remain anonymous. If they are like me, they have been meaning to get around to it, but are just lazy....

 

Artificial Gravity, you need to realize, that like much in life, there are no absolutes in art and ceramics. You say pug mills are worthless, others disagree. It's kind of like with Off Center. There are two things, that man loves, splash pans and Giffin Grips. He goes from thread to thread, defending their use to the bitter end. But not everyone agrees with that stance, and that's OK. Neither side is more right or wrong than the other.

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Also, in regards to reclaiming clay, not being economical, I would disagree. I recycle as much clay as possible in my classroom. I save several bags a year, by doing so. Which means, the next year, I don't have to order as much clay, which means I can use the money to buy other supplies. In a time, where school budgets, especially art budgets, are getting smaller, not larger, I save money any way I can.

 

I'm not as harsh as Jim's teacher though. I've never threatened, or thought about throwing a student in the pug mill, for wasting clay, and not just because I don't have a pug mill.... However, I have had very angry thoughts about the students, who waste my more "pricey" glazes. Nothing quite like seeing a student coat the inside and outside, of large, ugly vessels, with an expensive glaze, knowing that, they will toss the thing, the first chance they get. Which is why I put certain rules in place, for the glazes.

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I like "Offcenter" / Jim's comments in many posts.

Not to say I always agree, but it is good to have opiniated people.

 

Even if I have a fight with Jim, it will be an honour.

I do not really care that much who he is or what is in his profile, I like his avatar,

i.e. the little boy with the big cock who looks as if he is smoking something.

 

If we wind up each other every once in a while it is not necessarily a bad thing.

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Woo, take a week or so off from the forum, and look what happens!

I like Jim as well, sometimes his view is just what is needed to cut through the crap But I think this time he has gone a bit far.

 

This was a pretty good discussion about mills and reclaiming, and now it is a lecture to someone just trying to express an idea.

 

I will at least apologize to Artificial Gravity for the rough treatment, as it appears no other long time veterans will step up.

Most people here are very helpful, and maybe if you stick around, you can benefit, and help others as well.

 

It's still too early to tell!huh.gif

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It's kind of like with Off Center. There are two things, that man loves, splash pans and Giffin Grips. He goes from thread to thread, defending their use to the bitter end.

 

 

HOLY CRAP Benzine! You just made me spit coffee on my keyboard! For those of you who don't know, I despise splash pans and Griffin Grips.

 

Jim

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I like Jim as well, sometimes his view is just what is needed to cut through the crap But I think this time he has gone a bit far.

 

 

 

Maybe you're right. Some guy's grand pronouncement while hiding behind anonymity bugged me and I over reacted. I apologize for calling him/her/it an invertebrate and will remove the post.

 

Jim

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It's kind of like with Off Center. There are two things, that man loves, splash pans and Giffin Grips. He goes from thread to thread, defending their use to the bitter end.

 

 

HOLY CRAP Benzine! You just made me spit coffee on my keyboard! For those of you who don't know, I despise splash pans and Griffin Grips.

 

Jim

 

 

Jim, I thought since, it is your comments, that tend to make people spit their coffee on their keyboard, I'd mix things up a bit.

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I am glad Jim will settle down. I too also like to know who I am taking with on the forum but I realize many prefer anonymity. When I hope to meet people from the forum at meetings like NCECA...and Spring, for instance, said our pictures are small for her to recognize us, at least some of us had pictures and name tags to read. I wouldn't recognize people with names like "ZAP!" on their name tags. Just sayin'.

Marcia

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This thread has reminded me of a question I had, based on the pug mills I've used. In my first classroom, our pug mill was a Blue Bird de-airing model, not sure which exactly. It a several inch, by several inch hopper, with the lever, to push the clay down. It wasn't sealed, so it had to be cleaned after every use, and worked pretty slow. Because of this, I seldom used it, and just had the students reclaim by hand.

 

At my second job, the room had an older pug mill, a Walker I believe. It has a huuuuuge hopper, a couple feet each direction. The students would just through all the scrap clay in there, it held a lot. Once it was full, I'd turn it on, and let it go to work. It had a cap for the extruding end, and a lid for the hopper. I only had to clean it once a year.

 

I haven't seen any large hoppers on the more current models. So my question is, why is that? Is it a safety issue? They don't want people hurting themselves on the dangerous clay pugger?...........or having teachers, throw wasteful students in there.....

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