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Are red stains stable at cone 6


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#1 docweathers

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:42 PM

I have heard that Mason red stains are not stable at cone 6. Does anyone have any experience with Mason or other red stains at cone 6? What kind of red stains are most stable at cone 6?

Larry

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#2 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:15 PM

Hi larry,
I have a posted example of Deep Crimson in a glaze at ^6 in my gallery.

http://ceramicartsda...ewimage&img=765

recipe is the comment.

Marcia

#3 neilestrick

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:22 PM

Depends on the stain and the glaze formula, but they usually fade out a lot. That great example of Marcia's is rare, in my experience. Red inclusion pigments are made to be stable at cone 6, however they don't go into the melt like regular stains and lack depth, in my opinion. There's also been a lot of discussion on the boards here about the safety of inclusion pigments.

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#4 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:39 PM

I use mason stains, and degussa encapsulated reds and oranges. A good article about their application was in Ceramics Monthly written by Mizuno. ..possibly 10-15 years ago.
The mason stains are very dependent on the glaze chemistry. Read the reference codes on any mason stain chart.

I have not had any fading issues. Possibly some stains fade if they are not used as directed...like fired above their designed temperature or not used with the right types of chemicals.


Marcia

#5 docweathers

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:55 PM

There I seem to be a range of experiences with red stains. It sounds like I will have to include the encapsulated stains in my experiments. one thing that seems eminently clear, these are going to be expensive experiments since stains seem to be outrageously priced. the best prices I have found so far is Axner. Does anyone have a cheaper source?

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#6 bciskepottery

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:49 AM

Try http://www.uspigment.com/

#7 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:26 AM

I have used US pigments for some stains. I have a large quantity of stains from over the years.
I recently got some rarer colors from US Pigments...their own brand. The are usually at NCECA in the commercial exhibitions room, if anyone is going to Houston.

Marcia

#8 Roberta12

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

I have used US pigments for some stains. I have a large quantity of stains from over the years.
I recently got some rarer colors from US Pigments...their own brand. The are usually at NCECA in the commercial exhibitions room, if anyone is going to Houston.

Marcia


Thank you for the recipe Marsha. May I ask if that plate in the gallery was sprayed or dipped??

#9 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 11:23 AM

The plate was dipped.

Marcia

#10 Roberta12

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:01 PM

The plate was dipped.

Marcia



It is very nice! Thank you Marcia.

#11 Matt Oz

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

You can also try the 5x20 recipe...digitalfire.com/glossy_base_glaze


WOLLASTONITE....20.00
FRIT 3134.......20.00
KAOLIN..........20.00

SILICA..........20.00

CUSTER FELDSPAR.20.00


Add 10% stain 6006. I sometimes add ½% aluminum oxide to increase mottling, and it is stable, just picky about the recipe it's in.

Or one of the
Encapsulated stains, probably only need 4-5%

#12 perkolator

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:49 PM

i've had some luck with encapsulated reds/oranges at ^6. tried in multiple glaze recipes or just as an under/overglaze wash on top of a white or clear. usually, when working with stain IN a glaze it's around 10% since i want that exact color. i've also had luck firing ^04 commercial glazes up to ^6 since they're so stable yet so "crayola"

#13 docweathers

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:40 PM

I too have noticed that some of the commercial glazes lack depth of color. Since I am a beginner at glaze formulation, I am literally extruding hundreds of test tiles to run line blends in all possible directions. The whole thing seems an immense amount of work, but of course that's the reason we get paid the big money Posted Image

do the glaze recipes that have been successful for you have any common chemistry?

Larry

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#14 docweathers

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

What do commercial glazes have in them that make them so stable that you can successfully fire an 04 at cone 6? what are they doing that we should be doing?

Larry

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#15 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

I too have noticed that some of the commercial glazes lack depth of color. Since I am a beginner at glaze formulation, I am literally extruding hundreds of test tiles to run line blends in all possible directions. The whole thing seems an immense amount of work, but of course that's the reason we get paid the big money Posted Image

do the glaze recipes that have been successful for you have any common chemistry?


I think the common chemistry is the Limit Formula.

Marcia

#16 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:23 AM

Larry,

To get a good understanding of the common chemistry used in glazes there are some great books out there:
Clay and Glazes for the Potter by Rhodes
Mastering ^6 Glazes
Cone 6 Glazes by Michael Bailey
High Fire Glazes by John Britt

Limit formulas structure the radicals of fluxes, refractories and glass makers.
The ratio between them determines the texture, melting point. The fluxes in the base influence colors.

That is it in a nutshell.

Marcia

#17 docweathers

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:58 PM

Marcia
Thank you for the list of excellent ceramics glaze books. In response to your prior suggestion, I have bought the Baily book and am reading it. it is excellent. I also have the Insight software, which includes a lot of similar information. Getting around insight is a project in process.

Larry

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#18 JBaymore

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

Marcia
Thank you for the list of excellent ceramics glaze books. In response to your prior suggestion, I have bought the Baily book and am reading it. it is excellent. I also have the Insight software, which includes a lot of similar information. Getting around insight is a project in process.

Larry


Larry,

Once you get familiar with Insight and how it works..... and use the Level II database info available to you....... you'll have a great handle on glazes.

And relative to your other comment....... I know of no commercial or other glazes that "work" from cone 04 to 6. Something is "wrong" in one of the ranges.

For a while (back in the dinosaur age I come from) there was a recipe floating around that was called "Tizzy" or something like that. Fired from 04 to 9. The way it worked was that there was significant lead oxide and calcium oxide in it. At the low range the dominant active flux was the lead and calcium is not all that active in the 04 range....acted as an opacifier. As the temperature came up....... the other fluxes began to become active... and the volatile lead boiled out of the glaze. By cone 9-10....... when calcium oxide is hightly active, the lead had mostly boiled out of the glaze and "vanished" in the kiln effluent (to be breathed in as lead fume). (not good!)

best,

......................john
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#19 docweathers

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:22 PM

John

With that encouragement about Insight, I will start putting in more hours to master it in the level II database. So far I'm quite impressed with it.

In some thread you talked about giving demonstrations of throwing 25 to 50 pounds of clay. Have you made any videos of these demonstrations?

I can do 25 pounds plus but it is a real workout, even though I'm a big guy. I would like to refine my technique for throwing large.

Larry

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#20 JBaymore

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:49 PM

John

With that encouragement about Insight, I will start putting in more hours to master it in the level II database. So far I'm quite impressed with it.

In some thread you talked about giving demonstrations of throwing 25 to 50 pounds of clay. Have you made any videos of these demonstrations?

I can do 25 pounds plus but it is a real workout, even though I'm a big guy. I would like to refine my technique for throwing large.

Larry


Larry,

Unfortunately I don't do videos. Sorry. Someone else (Tim) just asked me that same thing in another thread and I explained why to him there in more detail. ( http://ceramicartsda...ainst-the-norm/ ) Short answer.... too busy, no time. I don't understand how people can put in all that Youtube time; I'm too busy working with clay and teaching at the college.

Maybe if I ever do a workshop in your area.......

best,

.......................john
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