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docweathers

Are red stains stable at cone 6

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Depends on the stain and the glaze formula, but they usually fade out a lot. That great example of Marcia's is rare, in my experience. Red inclusion pigments are made to be stable at cone 6, however they don't go into the melt like regular stains and lack depth, in my opinion. There's also been a lot of discussion on the boards here about the safety of inclusion pigments.

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I use mason stains, and degussa encapsulated reds and oranges. A good article about their application was in Ceramics Monthly written by Mizuno. ..possibly 10-15 years ago.

The mason stains are very dependent on the glaze chemistry. Read the reference codes on any mason stain chart.

 

I have not had any fading issues. Possibly some stains fade if they are not used as directed...like fired above their designed temperature or not used with the right types of chemicals.

 

 

Marcia

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There I seem to be a range of experiences with red stains. It sounds like I will have to include the encapsulated stains in my experiments. one thing that seems eminently clear, these are going to be expensive experiments since stains seem to be outrageously priced. the best prices I have found so far is Axner. Does anyone have a cheaper source?

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I have used US pigments for some stains. I have a large quantity of stains from over the years.

I recently got some rarer colors from US Pigments...their own brand. The are usually at NCECA in the commercial exhibitions room, if anyone is going to Houston.

 

Marcia

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I have used US pigments for some stains. I have a large quantity of stains from over the years.

I recently got some rarer colors from US Pigments...their own brand. The are usually at NCECA in the commercial exhibitions room, if anyone is going to Houston.

 

Marcia

 

 

Thank you for the recipe Marsha. May I ask if that plate in the gallery was sprayed or dipped??

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You can also try the 5x20 recipe...digitalfire.com/glossy_base_glaze

 

 

WOLLASTONITE....20.00

FRIT 3134.......20.00

KAOLIN..........20.00

SILICA..........20.00

CUSTER FELDSPAR.20.00

 

Add 10% stain 6006. I sometimes add ½% aluminum oxide to increase mottling, and it is stable, just picky about the recipe it's in.

 

Or one of the Encapsulated stains, probably only need 4-5%

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i've had some luck with encapsulated reds/oranges at ^6. tried in multiple glaze recipes or just as an under/overglaze wash on top of a white or clear. usually, when working with stain IN a glaze it's around 10% since i want that exact color. i've also had luck firing ^04 commercial glazes up to ^6 since they're so stable yet so "crayola"

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I too have noticed that some of the commercial glazes lack depth of color. Since I am a beginner at glaze formulation, I am literally extruding hundreds of test tiles to run line blends in all possible directions. The whole thing seems an immense amount of work, but of course that's the reason we get paid the big money unsure.gif

 

do the glaze recipes that have been successful for you have any common chemistry?

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I too have noticed that some of the commercial glazes lack depth of color. Since I am a beginner at glaze formulation, I am literally extruding hundreds of test tiles to run line blends in all possible directions. The whole thing seems an immense amount of work, but of course that's the reason we get paid the big money unsure.gif

 

do the glaze recipes that have been successful for you have any common chemistry?

 

 

I think the common chemistry is the Limit Formula.

 

Marcia

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Larry,

 

To get a good understanding of the common chemistry used in glazes there are some great books out there:

Clay and Glazes for the Potter by Rhodes

Mastering ^6 Glazes

Cone 6 Glazes by Michael Bailey

High Fire Glazes by John Britt

 

Limit formulas structure the radicals of fluxes, refractories and glass makers.

The ratio between them determines the texture, melting point. The fluxes in the base influence colors.

 

That is it in a nutshell.

 

Marcia

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Marcia

Thank you for the list of excellent ceramics glaze books. In response to your prior suggestion, I have bought the Baily book and am reading it. it is excellent. I also have the Insight software, which includes a lot of similar information. Getting around insight is a project in process.

 

Larry

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Marcia

Thank you for the list of excellent ceramics glaze books. In response to your prior suggestion, I have bought the Baily book and am reading it. it is excellent. I also have the Insight software, which includes a lot of similar information. Getting around insight is a project in process.

 

Larry

 

 

Larry,

 

Once you get familiar with Insight and how it works..... and use the Level II database info available to you....... you'll have a great handle on glazes.

 

And relative to your other comment....... I know of no commercial or other glazes that "work" from cone 04 to 6. Something is "wrong" in one of the ranges.

 

For a while (back in the dinosaur age I come from) there was a recipe floating around that was called "Tizzy" or something like that. Fired from 04 to 9. The way it worked was that there was significant lead oxide and calcium oxide in it. At the low range the dominant active flux was the lead and calcium is not all that active in the 04 range....acted as an opacifier. As the temperature came up....... the other fluxes began to become active... and the volatile lead boiled out of the glaze. By cone 9-10....... when calcium oxide is hightly active, the lead had mostly boiled out of the glaze and "vanished" in the kiln effluent (to be breathed in as lead fume). (not good!)

 

best,

 

......................john

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John

 

With that encouragement about Insight, I will start putting in more hours to master it in the level II database. So far I'm quite impressed with it.

 

In some thread you talked about giving demonstrations of throwing 25 to 50 pounds of clay. Have you made any videos of these demonstrations?

 

I can do 25 pounds plus but it is a real workout, even though I'm a big guy. I would like to refine my technique for throwing large.

 

Larry

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John

 

With that encouragement about Insight, I will start putting in more hours to master it in the level II database. So far I'm quite impressed with it.

 

In some thread you talked about giving demonstrations of throwing 25 to 50 pounds of clay. Have you made any videos of these demonstrations?

 

I can do 25 pounds plus but it is a real workout, even though I'm a big guy. I would like to refine my technique for throwing large.

 

Larry

 

 

Larry,

 

Unfortunately I don't do videos. Sorry. Someone else (Tim) just asked me that same thing in another thread and I explained why to him there in more detail. ( http://ceramicartsdaily.org/community/topic/3597-going-against-the-norm/ ) Short answer.... too busy, no time. I don't understand how people can put in all that Youtube time; I'm too busy working with clay and teaching at the college.

 

Maybe if I ever do a workshop in your area.......

 

best,

 

.......................john

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Red mason stains are largely sensitive to the glaze, but not unstable. The thing that effects a red mason stain (and many mason stains) is Tin in the glaze. Some Ferro frits and other low fire fluxes contain tin to some degree so planning your ^6 glaze is essential before investing in sometimes rather expensive mason stains.

 

If you have any questions about if your glaze has anything with Tin in it ... let me know ... I'll crack open the books and look it up.

Or check Digitalfire ... it's rather good about that.

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I will watch out for tin in my Mason stain glazes. I've also heard that zinc may be a problem. Is that true?

 

I will have to research my ferrofrit's to see which ones of them have tin. I never thought about that possibility.

 

In terms of cost of Mason stains, Axner seems to be the cheapest.

 

 

Larry

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Dear Doc and Atomic,

Here is a list of pinks and reds from mason. Most of these stains include tin. Their reference codes are mostly 3,5,9

So do not use with zinc.

Marcia

 

http://www.sheffield-pottery.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/pink_ref.gif

 

 

Reference Code:

1 = Can be used as body stain in porcelain at high temperatures.

1a = Use as body stain only.

2 = Maximum temperature - 2156°F (1180°C)

3 = Maximum temperature - 2300°F (1260°C)

4 = Maximum temperature - 1976°F (1080°C)

5 = Do not use zinc in glaze

6 = May be used with or without zinc

7 = Zinc not necessary but gives better results

8 = Best results with no zinc

9 = Glaze must contain 6.7 - 8.4% calcium oxide (12-15% CaCO3)

Above information from Mason Stains. Testing

Recommended.

 

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Thanks Marcia. Good resource.

 

Personally i've never been one to use mason stains ... too bland since it just makes this solid color with no characteristics. Nice for a liner and the few mason stain glazes I used in the past were for liners on mugs (lime green liner with an oil spot on the outside for example) but general rule, make a base that you can use any mason stain with so just avoid all zinc and tin in the glaze and you will be fine.

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