Pugmill, Looking To Purchase

[Pugaboo]

Yes I know this has all been covered here before and I have read as many old posts as I could.

 

Thought process on which pugmill to get:

1) single potter studio, so something smaller would be fine

2) physical issues with reclaiming and wedging by hand, pugmill will solve this

3) I currently use Little Loafers clay, if I ever change clays it would be to a porcelain, dark clays do not interested me at all, so think I need a stainless steel model

4) have a set maximum amount I can afford so price is critical

5) live in a small town, have limited travel options of any distance (Atlanta is about 4 hours away one way and not doable), transporting a heavy piece of equipment by myself not really an option, so Craigslist is difficult

 

The 2 Pugmills currently my list:

Bailey A-400 De-Airing Pugmill

Peter Pugger VPM-7SS

 

The Bailey A-400 De-Airing Pugmill $3215 with free shipping, and a coupon for $60 off.

When I called to order I was told it's not available for 3 months and I really need to purchase it this calendar year for tax reasons, so waiting will cause problems.

 

The Peter Pugger VPM-7SS 4098.88 including shipping, and a coupons for $10 off.

This one is is $600 more than the maximum amount I have. Does anyone know a website selling this model for $3500?

 

Soooo things I a wondering.... is a stainless steel version really important? If I get a non stainless steel model am I going to regret it everyday because it's going to ruin my clay or cost me more to repair? Is the drum easily replaceable if it gets pitted? I'm 50 and can easily see working in clay another 25 years.

 

If I don't get a stainless steel version it opens up my options some:

Peter Pugger VPM-7

Shimpo PM-071V

Bluebird 440 with the optional vacuum attachment

Axner New Wave De-Airing Pugmill

 

Input anyone? Options I am not considering, taking my needs into account?

 

Thanks for reading yet another pugmill post and I appreciate your insights.

 

T

[Min]

Not trying to throw another variable in here but I would have a look at the Bailey mixer/pugger. We have a larger Bailey mixer/pugger, it does a really thorough job. I haven't used the Bailey pugger only version like the one you are looking at, I would give them a call and ask if you can throw dry, wet, slop etc into it and have it properly blended like you can with the mixer/pugger.

 

Also, could you pay for it now and use the receipt for this years tax deduction even if it's not delivered until the new year?

 

edit: just read Mark's post and wanted to add that Bailey sells refurbished ones occasionally too. (they took our old one back when we bought a stainless one)

[Mark C.]

I cannot say enough about a peter pugger since my wrist surgery has limited wedging

That said I think the SS7 is to small even for a hobbist

The ss9 holds 25# of clay which is a very small amount but may fit your needs.

Think of it like a kiln you do not want to buy one to small.

Now as to price they sell reconditioned ones thru the peter pugger factory-thru their own web site

 

mouse around their site on the price page and its near the bottom ,You just need to be patient and wait for the one you want-they would true it yo so no pick up.

One other thing is they do not sell factory direct except for reconditioned units with warranties.They have a few now.

As to the lowest price I'll PM you a supplier that may work with that

 

Now let talk about the stainless deal

My larger VMP-20 is not stainless and all I use is porcelain. What happens over time is the aluminum pits-it will take decade or two to cause  any real trouble and that is the inner surface is rough. My pugger came from a high school who used a white low fire body and the inner barrel was already pitted.It can be sandblasted at any shop that does this but it will just pit again. My take is who cares about pitting unless you are a youngster as in 30 years it may pit thru the aluminum body-I do not care as I will not be on the planet when mine fails if it ever does -Its a part you can replace if needed in the long future.Weather the barrel is stainless or aluminum nothing gets into the clay or affects the clay

I do not get aluminum in the clay.The only down side is its not as smooth inside for cleaning which I never have done  anyway as the chamber in air proof so clay never dries out.I just run other bodies thru it and switch back and forth without any fuss.

[Mark C.]

The ceramic store sell the VMP-9 for $3,527

[Min]

Can't help but wonder if the aluminum barrel is okay if you use the pugger daily or at least very frequently. Before the Peter Puggers started offering stainless versions I knew of several potters who were pulling their hair out over the problems they had with them. They all got hard little bits in their clay, couldn't use the clay because of them. I know of one lady who had her barrel coated with an epoxy, didn't work as it wore off and caused more problems. Then came the epsom salts solution to fix the ph problem when using porcelains, I'm guessing that doesn't really work as now they do recommend their stainless ones for both porcelains and "certain white stonewares". I have no clue which stonewares they are referring to or if the use of a soda spar in more clay bodies is likely to happen in the future. I know Jim Bailey told me they are seeing the pitting/hard bits with some low fire high talc bodies now that the talc supply has changed.

 

Just in case you haven't read it already this is from the Peter Pugger Guarantee page:

"There are additional corrosion possibilities to be aware of when using porcelain and certain white stonewares in conjunction with an aluminum pugmill, wheel head, etc. It is that of Soda Feldspar. Feldspar has the unique ability to generate an oxide layer similar to aluminum. When a porcelain clay body with high levels of Soda Feldspar is left in a dark, moist pugmill or on an aluminum wheel head for a period of time (as soon as 2-3 weeks) without agitation, the oxide layers of the two elements (soda feldspar and aluminum) can fuse together. In turn, when the porcelain is removed from the area, dark oxide deposits that has formed on the aluminum are removed leaving a pit on the aluminum."

[Mark C.]

My barrel is aluminum and is pitted, it came that way used never been a problem.It was pitted from low fire high school clay program.

I never clean it out and always use porcelain in it. When it becomes an issue I will have it sandblasted as they said at the factory when I was there or worst case buy a new barrel and bold it on.I would never try and coat an inside with epoxy-I know better than that-as thats just asking for issues later.

If I was starting fresh(buying new) I would buy the stainless model except they do not yet make the larger versions in them as that block of stainless is to large for most C&C machines to work with.

[MatthewV]

The recommendation I heard:

 

Just run your pug mill frequently. Several times a week at least. Even if it is perfect clay, just run it through the barrel and back into the bucket. If you are willing to do this there is little need for a stainless steel barrel.

 

I have a used Venco with a pitted aluminum barrel. I have not had any issues but only have had it 6 months. I run it 2-3 times a week with a white stoneware.

I would consider cleaning the barrel if I was going to let it sit for a month or more.

[glazenerd]

Pug"

 

Krueger Pottery had 4 factory reconditioned Nra-04 pugmills: there is one left. $2400.00. Was looking at it last week.

 

http://kruegerpottery.com/equipment/pugmills-mixers/shimpo-nra-04-pugmill.html

Ask for Ryan ( the owner).... tell him GlazeNerd sent you: after all it was he that gave me the nick name.

 

Nerd

[Mark C.]

Since you want a smaller model I am rethinking and suggest the stainless model-especially if you ever resell it as then it will be spotless .I still think the 7 is just to small for anyone unless you use 200# of clay a year. In your case your clay use means the ssVPm9 as the smallest unit.

I would look for a used one if price point is so fixed-I bought my VPM 30 for $3200 which include shipping across country. I replace all seals (o-rings) and it been a weekly workhorse and saved my wrist from any wedging.After having 3 bones removed (PRC) its been a lifesaver-wish I had this years ago.

[Mark C.]

Petter pugger has one now reconditioned

its just above your price point but I would consider it-its a SSVPM 9

http://www.peterpugger.com/pugmill-extruder/pugmill-reconditioned.html

 

looks like brand new one is only a hundred more-I would call and ask them them for a deal on this demo model.

[oldlady]

terry, consider the bailey mixer/pugger.  it costs more but it also extrudes and you can mix powder, dry and wet clay all at once.  you want something that will do a lot of work for a very long time.  and right now, freight is free.  call bailey and talk to Jim.  

[Pugaboo]

Thank you for your input everyone! So much to think about and so much to research and educate myself about.

 

If I am understanding this correctly. The aluminum barrel isn't an issue as long as you cycle the clay through on a regular basis. My plan, hopefully, is to run it at the end of each days session. I will put my scraps and any additional slop needed for moisture to get it back into a usable form by pugging it and then bagging for future use. If I don't have enough to do daily would weekly be often enough do you think? Do any of you using Little Loafers have a Pugmill with an aluminum barrel? If so have you had any issues with pitting or bits of stuff appearing in your pugged clay? I read on another site about bits appearing in the clay which were really some kind of crystal formations from the aluminum and Soda interacting with each other. Don't know if this is true or not any experience anyone? Like I said been researching like crazy!

 

I understand what you are saying about getting a larger model rather than the smallest as well. Just worried about the increase in unit size as well as I have to put it somewhere as well as have the electric outlet to run it.

 

I never considered a mixer/pugmill and have been researching them heavily since you mentioned them here. I like what I am reading about them. Easier to use since no pressure is needed to feed the clay scraps, can extrude some basic forms as well and you all know how I LOVE my extruder!

 

Sooooo IF I really really don't need the stainless steel model, know now that a de-airing model is still critical, do go with a larger model, and switch to a mixer/pugmill I can afford this model from Baileys:

 

https://www.baileypottery.com/Bailey-Pottery/Product-Details/%20MSV-25T-DEAIRING-MIXER-PUGMILL-C126MSV25

 

Or the VPM-9 by Peter Pugger: http://www.peterpugger.com/pugmill-extruder/vpm-9-pugmill.html

 

I can add the accessories like extruding and such over time to expand its usefulness.

 

What do you all think of this model? Yeah I know you all have lives and such of your own to live but if you are bored and have important insight to impart I am open to hearing it.

 

Plan to call Baileys on Monday and ask some questions about it. Would like to be a little more educated on it before then so shoot those insights at me! If I like what I hear I will see if they have this model in stock (hoping!) and if not when I can get delivery and if I can pay in advance and get a receipt of purchase for it immediately. If I am still insecure after talking to them then I will have to think on this large purchase some more.

 

T

[Marcia Selsor]

I. Have a small Bailey desiring pugmill. I love it. I have torn down Walkers to clean them. also worked on a Petter Pugger. if you use more than one clay body I like the Bailey with the aluminum body.It is the easiest pug mill I have used and taken apart to clean. I clean it after each us so I don.'t waste porcelain. porcelain does seem to discolor steel wheel heads. so Ijust make sure I clean it after using.

It is easy. I also appreciate the customer service at Bailey.

Marcia

[Min]

I would never try and coat an inside with epoxy-I know better than that-as thats just asking for issues later.

 

 

Yup it does seem like a dumb idea, it was actually the Peter Pugger company that was doing that for customers that had issues with pitting and hard bits in the clay. 

[Pugaboo]

I just ordered a Bailey MSV-25T DeAiring Mixer Pugmill

This one:

https://www.baileypottery.com/Bailey-Pottery/Product-Details/%20MSV-25T-DEAIRING-MIXER-PUGMILL-C126MSV25

 

A lot went into the decision to get this model and you all helped a lot in getting me focused on what I needed.

 

Bailey Pottery was amazingly helpful with all my questions.

 

T

[oldlady]

HOORAY FOR TERRY!!!!        

[KathyG]

I have an old Venco deairing pugmill with an aluminum barrel that I finally did a deep clean on - lots of pitting and many small chunks in my clay when I pugged before this. I got it used a year ago and this may be the first time it was deep cleaned since it was bought in the '60s !?! Has anyone tried using the stuff people spray on truck beds as a liner for the aluminum? It wouldn't sheet off like epoxy, although it could be scratched. It's somewhat flexible, so the scratches may even seal off enough to still have some corrosion protection. I do want to use white clay and I fire to cone 6, so I expect soda feldspar will be introduced to the barrel. My chemist/engineer friend suggested this. My husband suggested something else - a urethane resin that is made for the bottoms of boats. It advertises as flexible with no chipping or flaking, even if it hits rocks. It's called Amazing Goop Coat-It and can be purchased at Home Depot. Any input appreciated!

 

Kathy

[Mark C.]

Any coating will come off

Take the barrel to a shop that can sand or better yet bead blast it smooth

Call Peter putter for the best rashers before doing this as they have done this many times