jem83 Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 Greetings potters! This is my first post here. I am an intermediate-to-advanced thrower but have no experience with kilns or firing on my own, and want to start *cautiously* dipping my toe into that side of things. I was lucky enough to be given a used/vintage test kiln as a freebie on Facebook marketplace. I was assured it works, but have yet to turn it on. Here is a folder with pics. I think I have the electrical figured out: from what I can tell it's 120V and the plug shape is a 5-20 with associated requirements. However, I can't find the manual online and as a newbie I would really like to have it. Does anyone have any tips or words of advice for finding it, or a reasonable equivalent? I have been searching variations on Paragon, high fire, fire, 1193, 1193D, etc. Any words of advice about locating a manual or just about the kiln itself would be MUCH appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted July 14 Report Share Posted July 14 Hi, I cannot see from your picture what model of kiln-sitter you have fitted. Here is a manual for the LT-3 & LT-3K. If you have a different model can you let us know what it is. http://www.fireright.com/docs/kilnsitter/lt3andk.pdf Found the circuit diagram for what might be your kiln at: https://corp.paragonweb.com/wp-content/uploads/WS1193.pdf ... at least the power requirement seem similar to the ones on your plate. I've had no luck finding a manual on the five pages at https://corp.paragonweb.com/support/instruction-manuals/ ... page selector buttons at the bottom of each of the five pages iffetorbay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem83 Posted July 14 Author Report Share Posted July 14 The kiln sitter is indeed LT-3K! Sorry for the picture quality. Thanks very much for what you turned up: very helpful. For the manual, maybe the best step is to call Paragon diectly (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted July 15 Report Share Posted July 15 18 hours ago, PeterH said: Found the circuit diagram for what might be your kiln at: https://corp.paragonweb.com/wp-content/uploads/WS1193.pdf ... at least the power requirement seem similar to the ones on your plate. If that is for your kiln it gives the model number a S1193 rather than 1193D. In which case the manual might be at https://corp.paragonweb.com/wp-content/uploads/IM104_S_SnF_TnF_Inst-Service-Manual.pdf ... although there is very little on the S models. This might be relevant. PS Test kilns, being smaller, tend to cool faster than full-size kilns. Which can influence the appearance of some glazes. My impression is that people with both a test and full-size kiln try to ensure that the test kiln cools at a similar rate to their full-size kiln. Which is a lot easier if the test-kiln has a controller fitted! iffetorbay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iffetorbay Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 @jem83 hi, What a cute little kiln you've found, looks as good as brand new! Happy firings! jem83 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem83 Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 thank you! It is cute and I will look into the controller A lot to learn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem83 Posted July 18 Author Report Share Posted July 18 Thank you for the help PeterH! A follow-up: when I finally got the kiln onto the right outlet and turned it on... nothing. Wiring all looks good (my partner in crime opened the kiln sitter to have a peek), but at least one element appears possibly damaged. I'm attaching a pic of the interior with the element in question at the bottom. Would that cause the whole thing not to heat? Is it worth replacing? I found what looks to be the element for sale and it is listed at just $50, and I would probably go ahead and replace both of them. I am just concerned that if I do that (if I *manage* to do that), and it still doesn't turn on, I'm out $100...but if that is the likely culprit, maybe it's worth taking the risk. Anyway, I'd appreciate any advice you might have! Thanks so much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 Getting to be a question for the experts. However two points. 1) Don't try to power-up the kiln again until you have removed the apparent short-circuit where the element crosses itself. It could damage something. (How to bend aged elements is outside my experience, they may be brittle.) 2) Can you: -- Confirm that you still have power to the socket (i.e. your test didn't trip the breaker). -- That you started the test by activating the kiln sitter (with a cone in place), otherwise power wouldn't get to the kiln proper. (If you don't have any cones the experts probably know how to improvise without a cone for the test.) -- Say if the pilot light came on during your test. 3) For now only look at the wiring when the kiln is unplugged. Do you have a meter that measures AC volts & ohms, and what is the lowest scale you can measure ohms on? Possible circuit diagram https://corp.paragonweb.com/wp-content/uploads/WS1193.pdf ... note that one element is shown running off a relay. - It would be nice to confirm the presence of the relay. (If it's not there it's the wrong diagram.) - Does the relay feed the good element or the damaged one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 The elements cannot touch like that. You'll need to separate them and pin the upper one into place so that it can't sag. The element is probably pretty brittle, so you'll want to heat it with a torch and use pliers to manipulate it. At some point you'll want to replace that brick, because pins can only do so much. jem83, PeterH and iffetorbay 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem83 Posted July 19 Author Report Share Posted July 19 I apologize: I made a newbie mistake. The kiln sitter trigger wasn't engaged and that is why it wouldn't power on. I figured that out last night and was able to get it going, which was exciting! I turned it off after a few minutes, but at least I know it works, and will try a basic test fire soon. However, that element certainly looks like it will need replacing, even if it's currently working, so I may start informing myself on that process. I downloaded the circuitry diagram: thanks so much for unearthing that. I am fairly certain the model is 1193S and so yes, the diagram is correct. Do you think that replacing the element makes sense, given what you see in the pic above? PeterH and Babs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem83 Posted July 19 Author Report Share Posted July 19 Thank you Neil: do you think pinning it is sufficient? Would I be better off replacing it... and trying to replace the brick at the same time? And, is this something a novice can do? I would be sure to inform myself. The manual (or what I believe to be the manual) has some instructions, and of course the internet is rife. I'm not sure about finding technicians locally... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 The elements may or may not be due for replacement. The only way to know for sure is to measure their resistance with a meter. Once the resistance is off by 10 % from new they're due for replacement. If you don't have a meter, pick up a cheap one at the hardware store or Amazon. Any digital meter that has an Ohms setting will work. If you put in a new element without replacing that brick then the new element will just sag like the old one. jem83 and iffetorbay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 You have the cones appropriate for your target temperature of your glaze and bisque firing? Kiln wash the parts that the cone will sit on. Good luck. Pin that element before torning on again. There was a demo maybe by @Min on just how to do this. @PeterH is a great researcher hopefully he can find it. jem83 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jem83 Posted July 20 Author Report Share Posted July 20 thank you all: I'm very appreciative of your expertise! I will look for that pinning demo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted July 20 Report Share Posted July 20 7 hours ago, Babs said: @PeterH is a great researcher hopefully he can find it. To emphasis the point: I have zero expertise or experience in this area, unlike the experts in this group. So all I'm doing is trying to find items on the net that might be useful. Buyer beware! Remembering Niel's comment: The elements cannot touch like that. You'll need to separate them and pin the upper one into place so that it can't sag. The element is probably pretty brittle, so you'll want to heat it with a torch and use pliers to manipulate it. At some point you'll want to replace that brick, because pins can only do so much. An initial YouTube search finds quite a lot of plausible-looking videos when searching for How to Repair a Bulging Element: The Paragon Kiln. Some apparently relevant items (ignoring element resistance checks and element replacement for now) ... PS 7 hours ago, Babs said: Pin that element before turning on again. There was a demo maybe by @Min on just how to do this. Min, any memories? Was it a video or text? Do you use other names posting on other sites (e.g. YouTube)? iffetorbay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted July 20 Report Share Posted July 20 On second thoughts. It might be worth measuring the elements resistance before trying to pin the element. If you are going to need to replace it ASAP you may not want to pin the replacement element in an area that you have previously pinned. (Or at least ask for advice from the experts on this point.) iffetorbay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iffetorbay Posted July 20 Report Share Posted July 20 Hi, @neilestrick and @PeterH already said that the first thing to do is to measure the resistance value (OHM ) of each element before further intervention on your kiln. You might need further guiding for this because how to properly measure element resistance is important but can be done . There are good instructions on the web . If you find out that it is good enough to be used( I watched the Paragon video above shared by @PeterH), you have all you need in the video entitled "How to repair a bulging element", to learn how to use pins (= staples). However, I cannot emphasize enough the importance to use pins/staples that you will buy that are made from the same type of wire as the kiln elements. Anything else would ruin your elements! One more warning if you and the other contributors permit: It happens sometime that a supplier sells replacement elements with approximative resistance values. If you buy new elements, assure yourself that the elements sold are really prepared for the specific kiln brand and model you own. This is very important, otherwise the kiln may not heat up properly. If you have doubts, contact euclids.com (with the technical plate info of your kiln). Jay Clarke, the technical person, will custom prepare the right elements for your kiln. There is a lot of good information prepared as instruction guides for the kiln users by major kilns brands. Although there are some differences between kiln models and brands, the technical principles are mostly the same. As a curious beginner ready to develop my skills, I have benefitted greatly from these technical guides , and I read them as often as I need to. I suggest the web pages of SKUTT kilns (under "Support" › "repair and maintenance" ) and of L&L Kilns (hotkilns.com). Of course, members of this forum may want to suggest other resources... But first for an instant idea about how to measure element resistance, please see https://www.skutt.com/pdf/service_manual/stm.pdf , of which I share a screenshot (its. p.20) below. UNPLUG YOUR KILN BEFORE MEASURING !!! The links below are to pdf guides that served me quite well as an advanced beginner. https://hotkilns.com/sites/default/files/2023-07/Electrical FAQs.pdf https://hotkilns.com/support/kiln-electricity https://hotkilns.com/support/kiln-electricity#ELECTRICAL BASICS https://hotkilns.com/sites/default/files/2020-04/install-2016-web.pdf All the best, Iffet Babs and PeterH 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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