Mark C. Posted June 3, 2023 Report Share Posted June 3, 2023 That looks like an old dryer plug to me. . That wiring interior (really fuzzy photo ) looks to be in bad shape as well. The label does not have a max temp that I can see. Cone 6 maybe if the wiring is in good shape and the elements are in good shape. Rusty means more resistance not what cone 6 needs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydve76 Posted June 3, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2023 11 minutes ago, Mark C. said: That looks like an old dryer plug to me. . That wiring interior (really fuzzy photo ) looks to be in bad shape as well. The label does not have a max temp that I can see. Cone 6 maybe if the wiring is in good shape and the elements are in good shape. Rusty means more resistance not what cone 6 needs It does on the first pics I posted says dont operate over cone 8. Ill fix up the plug and fix the wiring, where can I get that hi temp wire from? The stuff that connects to the elements. An hour of work will have it shiney! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted June 3, 2023 Report Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) When I am trying to match older designs I use “MG” wire or Mica Glass jacket. It is rated to 450 C (High temperature) and the wire itself to 750 C. Google your local suppliers for MG wire. https://www.awcwire.com/high-temperature-wire/mg-wire An alternative for newer machines has been silicone jacketed wire generally from 80 C - 250 C (Medium temperature) as newer machines often isolate the wiring from the kiln heat source better in a wiring plane using metal to block the line of sight IR from the kiln. Just a reminder - check the gauge to carry the proper amperage. Edited June 3, 2023 by Bill Kielb Hulk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted June 3, 2023 Report Share Posted June 3, 2023 SRML wire is also commonly used in kilns, and is less expensive. https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/12-awg-srml-sewf-2-silicone-rubber-wire-high-temperature-motor-lead-wire-ul3231-3070 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydve76 Posted June 3, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2023 36 minutes ago, neilestrick said: SRML wire is also commonly used in kilns, and is less expensive. https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/12-awg-srml-sewf-2-silicone-rubber-wire-high-temperature-motor-lead-wire-ul3231-3070 It looks 8awg any standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted June 4, 2023 Report Share Posted June 4, 2023 8 hours ago, Skydve76 said: It looks 8awg any standard? If you wire the way they currently have it, it'll need to be able to handle the entire 30 amps that the kiln draws, so at least 10ga. 8ga would be better so you're not maxing it out, but it'll get kind of bulky in there. The silicone coated wire would be less bulky than the SRML. The other option would be to wire each switch individually from the Sitter instead of daisy-chaining them, and use 12 ga wire. Any connectors on the ends of the wires should be high temp connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydve76 Posted June 4, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2023 All of my elements are measuring between 30 and 31 ohms. I just got a new ohmeter with a clamp on ammeter from amazon, it has good reviews. I am going to go get another cheap analog one for a 2nd measurement. My first measurements were showing between 31 and 32 ohms. The meter seems to hunt around. Not I took the wiring off and the kiln sitter is detached, so its just the bare elements. I cleaned them with some light sandpaper and electronics cleaner on the tips that stick out to plug into the sitter. Now to get some wire. I have some 12awg silicone wire rated to 200c. I use it for rc airplanes that pull 3600watts, should I just get the mica stuff? I assume the element pig tails that stick out into the sitter are probably red hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted June 4, 2023 Report Share Posted June 4, 2023 Ok, that gives us some useful technical data. Applying the math of Ohm's Law in reverse to the rating plate - 4 equal elements pulling a total of 30 amps or 7200 watts at 240V, each of the 4 elements in perfect shape should be 32 ohms. That's pretty close to what you are showing on your meters. Now, taking that to the next step in guesstimating kiln performance, your Gare 2318 is approximately the same size as a Skutt 1018 or an L&L e23S. Those each produce around 9500 watts, or about 30% more heat than your kiln. Add to that, your older kiln probably is made with 2 1/2" brick vs. the current standard of 3" brick, so your kiln will lose more heat to ambient radiant losses. Consequently, my rough guess is that cone 6 will be its maximum capability, and even that will be hard work for the kiln. Skydve76 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydve76 Posted June 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Dick White said: Ok, that gives us some useful technical data. Applying the math of Ohm's Law in reverse to the rating plate - 4 equal elements pulling a total of 30 amps or 7200 watts at 240V, each of the 4 elements in perfect shape should be 32 ohms. That's pretty close to what you are showing on your meters. Now, taking that to the next step in guesstimating kiln performance, your Gare 2318 is approximately the same size as a Skutt 1018 or an L&L e23S. Those each produce around 9500 watts, or about 30% more heat than your kiln. Add to that, your older kiln probably is made with 2 1/2" brick vs. the current standard of 3" brick, so your kiln will lose more heat to ambient radiant losses. Consequently, my rough guess is that cone 6 will be its maximum capability, and even that will be hard work for the kiln. So after all this, I still dont know how to use the klln Is this kiln useful? Just want to make pots and then glaze them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted June 5, 2023 Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Skydve76 said: So after all this, I still dont know how to use the klln Is this kiln useful? Just want to make pots and then glaze them. Yes, it will be useful up to midfire cone 5/6. So, how to "use" it? After you get it all cleaned up and running again, load the kiln sitter with the appropriate mini-cone, push the white button to set the sitter on, and then progressively turn on the brown switches over time. Each switch will add 1800 watts of heat, until all four are on for full heat. Some follow a schedule of the first hour with just the bottom switch on, then add a switch every hour. For a bisque firing, stay with just the bottom switch on until no more moisture is coming out the peep holes - hold a glass jar over the open peep and any moisture still coming out of the greenware will fog up the glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydve76 Posted June 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 thanks! I need to order some wire, I will just go with what was recommended above and not daisy chain them. Ill order some high temp eyelet connectors too. I want it to run efficient. You are correct, it is 2.5" brick and the lid is 2" brick. You guys are smart. Not sure if this is the correct place to ask, but can you recommend some clay and glaze that will work well with my setup? I see amazon sells quite a bit but lots of options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted June 5, 2023 Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 8 minutes ago, Skydve76 said: Not sure if this is the correct place to ask, but can you recommend some clay and glaze that will work well with my setup? I see amazon sells quite a bit but lots of options. Others may have different opinions, but I would not get clay from Amazon. Not that Amazon sells bad clay, but if possible you will be better served to find a clay store near you and develop a customer relationship with them. They will be able to guide you to appropriate clay bodies and glazes that will work together. Skydve76 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydve76 Posted June 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, Dick White said: Others may have different opinions, but I would not get clay from Amazon. Not that Amazon sells bad clay, but if possible you will be better served to find a clay store near you and develop a customer relationship with them. They will be able to guide you to appropriate clay bodies and glazes that will work together. Which one of these do you think I should get for wire? This place sells by the foot no min order, the other place wants 125ft min! https://prowireandcable.com/compare/28472/28455/28455 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted June 5, 2023 Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 43 minutes ago, Skydve76 said: Which one of these do you think I should get for wire? This place sells by the foot no min order, the other place wants 125ft min! https://prowireandcable.com/compare/28472/28455/28455 Get the black one. Green should used only for ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydve76 Posted June 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 40 minutes ago, Dick White said: Get the black one. Green should used only for ground. Well that have different strands etc. assume they are both black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick White Posted June 5, 2023 Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 41 minutes ago, Skydve76 said: Well that have different strands etc. assume they are both black. The description of the one on the left sez color is green. I don't think the number of strands in the wire matters, it is 12 AWG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted June 5, 2023 Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) @Skydve76 Just a suggestion reading further through this If this is mainly currently to test operation and you intend to fire cone 6 clays and glazes I think I would clean up the wire you currently have. Just clean the connections, cut back to clean wire and makeup new. Unless the wire is excessively burnt or discolored throughout the length of the wire. SMRL (Silicon Motor Lead Wire) is likely not near as high temp as the furnace kiln wire you presently have in there. For trial sake this kiln may have a difficult time reaching cone six repeatedly anyway. Just reading Dicks thread it likely is underpowered. New wire connecting to element pigtails will definitely get hotter than 200C so buying new lesser rated wire before confirming it will do what you want might be a bit of waste of money at this point. I would also suggest figuring out which temp range clay and glazes you prefer to work with. Many work at cone 6 because they prefer vitrified (low absorbent) properties. Still there are those that work at cone 04 (Low fire) Cone 6 = 2232 f (1222 C) Cone 04 = 1945 f (1063 C) As can be seen both firing temps are well above 200C, which means a lot of cooling by airflow and connection choice to keep this near its specification. If the old wire looks good cut back an inch or two I would do that first till you can sort out the rest. Edited June 5, 2023 by Bill Kielb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydve76 Posted June 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 Im fine buying the correct wiring. I have a lot to learn still, If cone is all I can get to Ill check to see if that will meet our needs. Simply want to make pots/crafts and glaze them. Just a fun toy for the kids. This kiln is way too big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted June 5, 2023 Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 SRML wire is perfectly fine for use in kilns. I've used it in dozens upon dozens of kiln for the last 20 years without problem, including Gare/Evenheat kilns just like this. It is very common in kilns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted June 5, 2023 Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, neilestrick said: SRML wire is perfectly fine for use in kilns. I've used it in dozens upon dozens of kiln for the last 20 years Yes, I am sure it is fine, created for motor leads and medical equipment. Just kidding, in all seriousness I would pick the highest temp you can get. it’s produced in a range of temperatures. My point really was, maybe before spending money for new, make sure this kiln will perform for his use, especially at cone 6. The wire probably will not increase performance significantly unless he has a bunch of annealed and corroded wire right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted June 5, 2023 Report Share Posted June 5, 2023 17 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said: Yes, I am sure it is fine, created for motor leads and medical equipment. Just kidding, in all seriousness I would pick the highest temp you can get. it’s produced in a range of temperatures. My point really was, maybe before spending money for new, make sure this kiln will perform for his use, especially at cone 6. The wire probably will not increase performance significantly unless he has a bunch of annealed and corroded wire right now. I agree, fire it up and see if it works before spending any money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydve76 Posted June 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2023 How long should cone 6 take to get to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted June 7, 2023 Report Share Posted June 7, 2023 On a typical turn-up schedule- lo 1 hr, med 1 hr, high till done- anywhere from 5-10 hours. Depends on the kiln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydve76 Posted June 8, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 Im doing more research, it seems maybe cone 06 and cone 04 may be what I can do. Honestly, what cones do highschool art classes usually fire to? So much to learn. If I can find a local place Id like to support it, but it seems in my area (omaha, ne) there just are studios where they want you to come rent a table. Looks like kansas is the closest place. Nebraska sucks for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 (Nebraska sucks for everything.)-I thought corn grows well there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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