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Resources for understanding chemical interactions between glaze materials


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Hello everyone!

I know this question has been posited several times  (one such forum post below) but I need some recommendations. 

In one of John Britt's videos, he recommended Parmelee 's-Ceramic Glazes and I have also found a book by the lovely Linda Bloomfield called "Science for Potters". Has anyone read either of these , and if so, can you comment as to the level of description of glaze component interactions?

 

Recently I read Bloomfield's Colour in Glazes and found it to be wonderful, advanced yet still introductory (ex: high calcia base with rutile + iron + tin will give a pale yellow orange). But now I need a little more detail.  From what John Britt stated in the video about Parmelee, I feel like the information given was similar to what I have already obtained with the Bloomfield book, and so I would not want to buy a similar book to something I already have, because these older out of prints are very spensy. And I'm a broke potter trying to maximize firings and materials by getting formulas fairly close the first time, instead of stumbiling through a million recipes that end up in the trash pile. 

Of course, I'm all over digital fire, but I can't spin a thread on how to start formulating from the wide list of available ingredients. 

Thanks so much for your consideration, 

Ret

 

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Oh my, back again!

If the recommended resource can dicuss why materials are chosen over others in glaze formulation ex: whiting vs wollastonite, that would be great. I understand a lot of that is UMF and limits territory, but a discussion on the chemical interplay is what i'm craving.  For example, in the Bloomfield book Colour in Glazes  I learned that wollastonite is preferred in industrial applications because it doesn't off gas, reducing chance of pinholes. I need more juicy grapes like that!! 

Thanks, I promise this is the last one for a while!!!

Ret

Edited by Retxy
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I found this page instructive: https://digitalfire.com/picture/huctibegac
This chart compares the decompositional gassing behavior of six materials as they are heated through the range 500-1700F. These materials are common in ceramic glazes, it is amazing that some can lose 40%, or even 50%, of their weight on firing. For example, 100 grams of calcium carbonate will generate 45 grams of CO2! This chart is a reminder that some late gassers overlap early melters. That is a problem. The LOI (% weight loss) of these materials can affect your glazes (causing bubbles, blisters, pinholes, crawling). Notice talc: It is not finished gassing until 1650F, yet many glazes have already begun melting by then (especially fritted ones). Even Gerstley Borate, a raw material, is beginning to melt while talc is barely finished gassing. And, there are lots of others that also create gases as they decompose during glaze melting (e.g. clays, carbonates, dioxides).
r7o6o9pqpg.jpg

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3 hours ago, Retxy said:

because these older out of prints are very spens

You might try www.bookfinder.com, it's quite good at finding both old and new books. The later are sometimes surprisingly cheap.

I bought copies of the 1st and 3rd editions if "Parmalee" back in the 1980s. The latter is IMHO vastly superior, being  "completely revised and enlarged"  after Parmalee's death by a colleague Harman.  Change this search to your postal region and currency. https://tinyurl.com/yv5dfyfx 

I thought it was a great book at the time, but it's certainly not where I would start learning now.

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Robin Hoppers The Ceramic Spectrum is quite good. You should probably be able to look for some preview pages or your local library to get an idea if this is what you are looking for. The colourant charts he has in the book are available online if colour development is something you are interested in. Similar to what Bloomfield book has but more in depth. Starts on page 3 of this link

 

 

 

Edited by Min
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10 hours ago, Retxy said:

but a discussion on the chemical interplay is what i'm craving.

Um. I feel this frustration deep in my soul. The truly maddening thing is that because of all the possible variables, if you’re learning about it on the free or cheap, it’s a long process. Glaze chemistry is not only the interactions between the individual atoms like it’s written on paper, its the working properties of the minerals they all come from, particle size and how it affects melt, and the physics that happen in the kiln accordingly. There’s a ridiculous number of variables involved, so a scientific method of breaking down each and every one of them is a vast undertaking. 

Most glaze chemistry for clay artists/potters can be encapsulated in the words of Inigo Montoya. “Let me explain. No, wait. There is to much. Let me sum up.” A bunch of stuff gets oversimplified, because not everyone needs the deep understanding of the science to make what they want to. Sometimes that oversimplification leaves room for expanded understanding later, sometimes not.

For the free/cheap approach, reading Digitalfire and following the outbound links at the bottom of  the page for expanded info is about the best we got. After that, paying $$$ for courses and books is definitely faster. Definitely don’t look for older chemistry books on websites that have free college textbooks*. It would be wrong, because it’s (sometimes) borderline piracy. College profs don’t recommend this. Nope. 

*cough* *cough* Library Genesis* cough* cough*

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Where to start, indeed.

Not that long ago, I spread out on a table several glaze recipes* I'd gathered from local J.C. Ceramic Lab (thanks to the instructor), Bill van Gilder's book, Lakeside Pottery website, Hesselberth's Frog Pond Pottery website (which may be offline now, but is still archived), Tony Hansen's website, and a few other books.

From there, with some consideration to common materials (hence buying fewer different bags o' powder), I picked a half dozen.

That to say this: try to find recipes from dependable sources that include usage notes, testing results, pictures, comments...

Some of my choices went no further than a small test batch.
Some are in production!
The challenge was dialing in a liner glaze; that took some time, research, testing, more of all that, and some help (thanks to several Forum members!).

*what is your firing range preference?
I'm doing cone 5/6 (more five than six...)

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16 hours ago, PeterH said:

I found this page instructive: https://digitalfire.com/picture/huctibegac
This chart compares the decompositional gassing behavior of six materials as they are heated through the range 500-1700F. These materials are common in ceramic glazes, it is amazing that some can lose 40%, or even 50%, of their weight on firing. For example, 100 grams of calcium carbonate will generate 45 grams of CO2! This chart is a reminder that some late gassers overlap early melters. That is a problem. The LOI (% weight loss) of these materials can affect your glazes (causing bubbles, blisters, pinholes, crawling). Notice talc: It is not finished gassing until 1650F, yet many glazes have already begun melting by then (especially fritted ones). Even Gerstley Borate, a raw material, is beginning to melt while talc is barely finished gassing. And, there are lots of others that also create gases as they decompose during glaze melting (e.g. clays, carbonates, dioxides).
r7o6o9pqpg.jpg

Peter H This is SUPER helpful. Thank you!

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14 hours ago, PeterH said:

You might try www.bookfinder.com, it's quite good at finding both old and new books. The later are sometimes surprisingly cheap.

I bought copies of the 1st and 3rd editions if "Parmalee" back in the 1980s. The latter is IMHO vastly superior, being  "completely revised and enlarged"  after Parmalee's death by a colleague Harman.  Change this search to your postal region and currency. https://tinyurl.com/yv5dfyfx 

I thought it was a great book at the time, but it's certainly not where I would start learning now.

Hi Peter H (again!)

Why would you not start with Parmelee now? Was it too much? Too little? 

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9 hours ago, Min said:

Robin Hoppers The Ceramic Spectrum is quite good. You should probably be able to look for some preview pages or your local library to get an idea if this is what you are looking for. The colourant charts he has in the book are available online if colour development is something you are interested in. Similar to what Bloomfield book has but more in depth. Starts on page 3 of this link

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Callie Beller Diesel said:

Um. I feel this frustration deep in my soul. The truly maddening thing is that because of all the possible variables, if you’re learning about it on the free or cheap, it’s a long process. Glaze chemistry is not only the interactions between the individual atoms like it’s written on paper, its the working properties of the minerals they all come from, particle size and how it affects melt, and the physics that happen in the kiln accordingly. There’s a ridiculous number of variables involved, so a scientific method of breaking down each and every one of them is a vast undertaking. 

Most glaze chemistry for clay artists/potters can be encapsulated in the words of Inigo Montoya. “Let me explain. No, wait. There is to much. Let me sum up.” A bunch of stuff gets oversimplified, because not everyone needs the deep understanding of the science to make what they want to. Sometimes that oversimplification leaves room for expanded understanding later, sometimes not.

For the free/cheap approach, reading Digitalfire and following the outbound links at the bottom of  the page for expanded info is about the best we got. After that, paying $$$ for courses and books is definitely faster. Definitely don’t look for older chemistry books on websites that have free college textbooks*. It would be wrong, because it’s (sometimes) borderline piracy. College profs don’t recommend this. Nope. 

*cough* *cough* Library Genesis* cough* cough*

 

6 hours ago, Hulk said:

Where to start, indeed.

Not that long ago, I spread out on a table several glaze recipes* I'd gathered from local J.C. Ceramic Lab (thanks to the instructor), Bill van Gilder's book, Lakeside Pottery website, Hesselberth's Frog Pond Pottery website (which may be offline now, but is still archived), Tony Hansen's website, and a few other books.

From there, with some consideration to common materials (hence buying fewer different bags o' powder), I picked a half dozen.

That to say this: try to find recipes from dependable sources that include usage notes, testing results, pictures, comments...

Some of my choices went no further than a small test batch.
Some are in production!
The challenge was dialing in a liner glaze; that took some time, research, testing, more of all that, and some help (thanks to several Forum members!).

*what is your firing range preference?
I'm doing cone 5/6 (more five than six...)

Thank you to Min, Callie Beller Diesel, and Hulk for chiming in on this post!!! Min I will follow the link and see what comes up! Callie, Inigo is my spirit animal and I definitely feel it when he says "I do not think it means what you think it means" when I'm trying to create a glaze from scratch. Hulk, recently my electric bill has doubled and I can no longer afford to do cone 6 firings which is where my real comfort level lies. So, I am trying to find solutions to do fabled single firings at cone 04 with earhenware so that I can keep everything on the cheepy cheap. Because life. And while I have found MC6 to be a fabulous resource for formulating cone 6 glazes, one which gave me a place to spring from, I haven't found anything similar for lower temps.  Cone 06/04 would be ideal.

 

Thanks again to you all for your kind help!!

 

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I'm uncertain what types of glaze you are interested in, which influences what "chemistries" you will need to know.

For example are you interested in vice-free "reliable" glazes or those with "character"?

Which might mean a choice between:
- a liner glaze and one or more base-glazes that you can colour to taste.
- several different glazes with radically different properties and constituents: e.g. oil-spot, crackle, "wood-ash", ...

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On 10/11/2022 at 1:55 AM, Retxy said:

but a discussion on the chemical interplay is what i'm craving


The best insight on the chemistry of color -- and other properties -- is the book: 
"Silicate Glasses and Melts, 2ed." by  Bjorn Mysen & Pascal Richet, Elsevier 2019  (There may be a third edition already.)

Mysen & Richet focus on the chemistry of the materials, not  on recipes.  

LT

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@Magnolia Mud ResearchThank you so much I will definitely check that out!!

 

@PeterHhi Peter! my needs: cone 06-04 glazes that don't craze. my hopes and dreams: cone 06-04 glazes that are utilityware safe.  my pipe dream in the sky: strike it rich and go back to cone 6 firings so I don't have to worry so much that the body below isn't vitreous. :D Thanks so much!!

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9 hours ago, Retxy said:

my needs: cone 06-04 glazes that don't craze. my hopes and dreams: cone 06-04 glazes that are utilityware safe.  my pipe dream in the sky: strike it rich and go back to cone 6 firings so I don't have to worry so much that the body below isn't vitreous.

Sounds like a very rational analysis. It might be worth starting a new thread asking for recommendations of body/glaze combinations likely to meet those criteria.

PS Have you seen these discussions on glaze chemistry at Digitalfire. (Not recommendations, just low-hanging google fruit.)

G1916Q - Low Fire Highly-Expansion-Adjustable Transparent
https://digitalfire.com/recipe/g1916q

G1916M Cone 06-04 Base Glaze
https://digitalfire.com/article/g1916m+cone+06-04+base+glaze

G3879 - Cone 04+ UltraClear Glossy Base
https://digitalfire.com/recipe/g3879
 

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  • 2 weeks later...

@PeterH

Hi Peter! Yes I had seen those, especially the article using fusion frit, which for some reason I can't get a hold of anywhere that it doesn't cost a million dollars to ship it. Sigh, it's always something.  Thank you for sending me these!!!

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